Cheat´s for opening instrument, soundwaves?

[FinDoubleBass]

I have heard that you can open you istrument whit sound waves? Buddy of mine plays violin and told me, that somewhere around the world they sell device which feeds soundwaves to bringe. Soundwaves make the wood vibrate and instrument starts to play better/deeper (same thing happen when you play your instrument, but the time is what matters the most). Sound great dosen´t it? if this is true, imagine that your istrument would play/vibrate 24/7... Some of my friends (pro bass players) leave classical music on (vol up) when they are away, so that the bass will get as much sound as possible? Does anyone have better info about this?

[chancletarock]

i don't have much info about that, other than recently witnessing the phenomenon of my new bass getting more low end every day. i'd like to think the oldschool method of "just play it...a lot" has more merit though - although time is undoubtedly very important.

[JtheJazzMan]

If I had the room to experiment, Id have a soundproof room where Id set the bass up with a microphone and let the bass resonate and feedback at a gated volume all day.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

If I had the room to experiment, Id have a soundproof room where Id set the bass up with a microphone and let the bass resonate and feedback at a gated volume all day.

If the theory is correct and you did this, wouldn't you just increase the feedback tendancy of your bass? Better to load a sequence of scales onto your Ipod and set it to repeat indefinately, perhaps dwelling on the notes which are weak on your bass, and avoiding the feedback tones.

There was a thread recently about a certain device you attach to the bridge. No one here came out confidently in favor of it. Personally, I think that vibrating your bass artificially might have some effect, but for it to be noticable you would have to blast it with major major watts.

Just play it more!

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by FinDoubleBass

I have heard that you can open you istrument whit sound waves? ...

Here you go -

http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/a...ibration.shtml


Lumpy

You Played on Lawrence Welk?
Yes but no blue notes. Just blue hairs.

www.LumpyMusic.com

[altruego]

Maybe this is what you are looking for. I've never used it so I don't know if it is effective or not.
http://tonerite.com/

[MIKMAN]

David Langsather (www.dalemfg.com) shows an experiment in his site which is useful for violins. His general idea is to make a violin vibrate like a speaker. I pressume that it is also useful for basses but i didn't try it.

[GerardSamija]

There's a guy in Scotland who uses 'humidity cycling' to make newer instruments behave/sound like old ones. I've only his word and those of his customers to go by... and considering that I see instruments belonging to my clients go from 15% to 90% RH and back again routinely without noticeable improvement (just a lot of cracks and loose seams) this practice seems somewhat questionable. I know the Saunders/Hutchins crew did a fair bit of work on pre-vibrating instruments, as have many of their followers. Again, it seems the resulting 'improvements' have been insufficiently brilliant to take the world by storm. A well made instrument (and this means a LOT of details all done right!) should sound better with a lot of playing and aging. Part of the process is the player's own adaptation to a given instrument's needs, finding the weak and overly-strong points and adapting technique to balance these, learning just what is needed to bring the best response. I haven't yet seen anything close to a reproducible technique to acoustically age an instrument, Joseph Nagyvary notwithstanding.

[DavidMP]

Slightly OT.
I would rather start with wood that has been partially digested like what Stonebridge Guitars claim.
It sounds really close to this announcement and research:
Title: Superior wood for violins – wood decay fungi as a substitute for cold climate
Authors: Schwarze,F.W.M.R.; Spycher,M.; Fink,S.
Source: New Phytol., 2008, 179, 4, 1095-1104, Wiley

[Blaine]

once on a new bass i put an amp on it's back and laid the bass on top of it and fed a cd player thru the amp at moderate volume. couple of hours a day for a week or so. i think it helped.

[JtheJazzMan]

Originally Posted by robobass

If the theory is correct and you did this, wouldn't you just increase the feedback tendancy of your bass? Better to load a sequence of scales onto your Ipod and set it to repeat indefinately, perhaps dwelling on the notes which are weak on your bass, and avoiding the feedback tones.

There was a thread recently about a certain device you attach to the bridge. No one here came out confidently in favor of it. Personally, I think that vibrating your bass artificially might have some effect, but for it to be noticable you would have to blast it with major major watts.

Just play it more!

Instead of feedback then, are there any suggestions for which frequencies to pump into the bass? I just tried pumping 4 sine waves into my bass, ie 41.204, 55, 73.416, and 98hz, the open string frequencies. That really gets the top vibrating and pushing some air. If you want to get the bass to "open up" surely that would do it.

Makes a hell of a racket though. Youd need some soundproof area to do this in.

I think ill test this out on my bass when it gets back from major work.

[360guy]

I was a student of Ray Doerr in Battle Creek MI. He had a set up called a "R.A.P.I.D."----I can't recall what that stood for. Anyway it was used for new violins to "open" them up for better tone. It was very simple and could be used on basses as well I think.

He had a radio playing classical music and an exposed extension speaker. In the center of the speaker he made a small paper cone ( looked like a large incense cone) and lightly glued the lower edges of the cone to the center of the speaker ( the 1/2 sphere shape's outer circumference ) and then attached a bamboo stick to the center of the earlier mentioned cone. And then an electrical alligator clip to then end of the bamboo sticks other end.

He would suspend the the violin using rubber bands around the pegbox area and then attach the alligator clip to the side of the bridge. It sounded OK and it was nice to have some music in the shop. It stands to reason that it could help the instrument vibrate better. Does that equate to better tone?

I'll try to hunt up some pictures of it to post.

[sjd007]

Sounds like a reasonable idea. Most instruments improve with playing (not just age - an old played instrument is usually better than an old unplayed one all other factors being equal).

I make speakers and it is usual practice to pump white noise in for a week to them to get them to mellow and bed down. Tends to level off a munber of spikes in the response.

I would imagine the same thing on a stringed instrument would help maybe hasten the "playing in" time of a new instrument?

If you don't have access to a white noise generator or CD, an FM radio tuned between channels is a reasonable approximation.

White noise is not pleasant, but because it is even through the spectrum would be better for settling in a new instrument.

Probably best just to play it a lot though...

[Square Bear]

i doubt that pumping sound into the instrument has anywhere near the effect that playing on it does. i find that when i play my instrument a lot, not only does it sound better, but i sound better as well (which is where i figure the most inadequacy lies).

i would think that your results could only be effective up to a point. i think what really breaks an instrument in is the motion of it generating it's own sound (just like a speaker pumping white noise for a week - you play the white noise through the speaker rather than just pointing another speaker at it). i've also heard that playing a lot of jazz on a bass breaks it in faster as well, because playing with an aggressive pizz really flexes the top. this makes a lot of sense to me, though i can't verify it with any real evidence. you can see it for yourself though - pull the E string as if you are about to pluck it and watch the F hole. it's really amazing how much movement you see in the top.

[JtheJazzMan]

Well pointing a speaker at the bass seems very inefficient. I just pumped fundamental string frequencies through my bass for 20 mins, the strings vibrating as far as possible without hitting the FB.

Most the power seems to be shaking my house, not to mention the amp smelling rather toasty. You really need an airtight enclosure.

I have no doubt this would alter the sound if done regularly. The body of the bass was seriously vibrating, way more than anything you could do by playing the bass. However its impractical.

I was talking to a luthier yesterday and there are makers around putting certain design quirks in, like a certain amount of flex/tension in the bass bar. Apparently these basses are right up there with vintage basses, after just a few months.

Which seems plausible, there are bassists using basses that only young, but sound great. So a master crafted bass clearly goes a long way.

[Square Bear]

i know what you mean about young basses being able to sound great quickly. my bass is only months old but the sound has already opened up a lot.

[GerardSamija]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

I was talking to a luthier yesterday and there are makers around putting certain design quirks in, like a certain amount of flex/tension in the bass bar. Apparently these basses are right up there with vintage basses, after just a few months.

ACK!!! Please, don't ever encourage a luthier (or more likely an enthusiastic hobbyist) to 'tension' a bassbar, otherwise known as 'stressing' it. This procedure, generally speaking, involves first fitting a bassbar accurately to the belly, then trimming away the ends and gradually tapering that mis-fit towards the middle section, which is generally left intact in its fit.

The theory: this tension 'springs' the belly, as the ends glued down under tension act to push the middle section upwards towards the strings, preventing belly collapse in the middle and possibly adding 'vibrancy' owing to the added tension.

The truth: the ends of the bassbar are left pulling the belly back down, as the bar is stiffer than the belly grain above it and causes a puckering over time at both ends. Further, there is no upward net effect on the middle, so any inherent weakness in the belly will still allow sinking. Still further, such a bar is very likely to come un-glued if anything less than a perfect fit and the strongest glue, and the former is unlikely considering the manner of the tapering.

I have other objections based on principals of acoustical physics, but contend that these need not even come into play considering all the down sides of such nonsense-luthiery. Springing bassbars is something perpetuated by hacks through much of the 20th century, possibly before. It is not practiced by any truly skilled luthier who achieves consistently high quality results.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by GerardSamija

...Still further, such a bar is very likely to come un-glued if anything less than a perfect fit and the strongest glue, and the former is unlikely considering the manner of the tapering...

Yes, that's happenned to me. One of my basses was restored about 15 years ago and the bar has come loose twice.