Christophers: online or offline?

Yukon4 · #1 09-17-2006, 02:57 PM

Hey everyone - after much research and shopping and reading TalkBass forums, we have decided on a Christopher bass for my high school aged son. We have one home on trial and he loves it.

The question is: we can either buy the Christopher 103 from our local, reputable shop (in Seattle) and pay about $2000 OR I've found an online store that seems to have lots of great customer comments, plus I've spoken with them on the phone and they sound "OK" - and they sell the same bass for about $600 LESS! That's a big difference for us. The online store says their setup is very good, we'll just have to put the bridge up when it arrives. Shipping is under $100. All in all, I can get more for the same money from the online store. In fact, we could get the Christopher 203, which they sounds even better and still come out cheaper than the local store.

I would rather buy it locally and be able to see and hear the instrument, but $600 diff. is quite significant. The store doesn't include a bag or bow either. (another $350+ if purchase from them - online includes bag but no bow, but for $600 we were going to upgrade the strings, get a bow, a stand, etc)

Any thoughts? Online or at the local store? 103 or 203? Not sure if I can name the online web store or not... will check. Thanks a bunch!

Jake deVilliers · #2 09-17-2006, 03:54 PM

The thing you need to consider is what you'll do if something goes wrong with the bass or if the setup doesn't suit your child.

If you've bought it locally you can take it in for repair to a place where they have a vested interest in your satisfaction.

If you've bought it online, will you have to ship it back to the vendor, or do they have a local repairman to do their warranty and setup work?

I'm not saying that one is necessarily better than the other, but these are questions you should ask both vendors.

Jim Carr · #3 09-17-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon4

...The question is: we can either buy the Christopher 103 from our local, reputable shop (in Seattle) and pay about $2000 OR I've found an online store that seems to have lots of great customer comments, plus I've spoken with them on the phone and they sound "OK" - and they sell the same bass for about $600 LESS! That's a big difference for us. The online store says their setup is very good, we'll just have to put the bridge up when it arrives. Shipping is under $100. All in all, I can get more for the same money from the online store. In fact, we could get the Christopher 203, which they sounds even better and still come out cheaper than the local store.

I would rather buy it locally and be able to see and hear the instrument, but $600 diff. is quite significant. The store doesn't include a bag or bow either. (another $350+ if purchase from them - online includes bag but no bow, but for $600 we were going to upgrade the strings, get a bow, a stand, etc)

Any thoughts? Online or at the local store? 103 or 203? Not sure if I can name the online web store or not... will check. Thanks a bunch!

See if the local store will make a deal.

clink · #4 09-17-2006, 05:50 PM

I own a Christopher 103 and think it's a very nice bass for the money. It is well made and no doubt, durable for a low maintenance instrument. Unfortunately, it may only take your son so far and you'll be looking to upgrade.
I've had mine for about six months and just bought a better bass because the Christopher has that one dimensional 'plywood' tone. Mine is set up for Jazz, but with the original Helicore Orchestra strings, it also sounded like a cheap bass to me. There's no complexity to the tone, pizz or under the bow.
Mine was purchased used from a local luthier for $850 and came with a bow and bag. The previous owner had it for a year or so and upgraded to a carved bass.
In my opinion, you could buy a properly set up Shen or an Upton Hawkes that would go a lot further.

I bought the Hybrid Hawkes from Upton for $2600 including shipping and I expect it to last me for several years. It's going to last me a long time, because my wife is giving me the 'talk'!

The ply version is $1800 and I would expect it to be a better choice than the Christopher.

Of course, I understand that your question is whether or not to buy the bass locally or online. My choice was to buy the best bass, set up for my style of playing, at the lowest price.

I plan to keep my Christopher and use it for rain or '100 degree in the shade' gigs, but I'd advise against for a main instrument much past the first year.

Rocky · #5 09-17-2006, 05:50 PM

I bought a 204t for 1300.00 out the door ( Mike at sparks music - http://www.sparksmusiccenter.com/) so I think you can get a much better deal than 2000.00 for a 103. There is validity to the customer service aspect you will get from a local music store, but only if they specialize in string basses. Chances are you will need to develope a good repore with a local luthier anyhow. If you are going to buy a Bass for 2K, i would seriously recommend the Upton model for 1800.00. a great bass with better features and an excellent setup. I only bought my bass because it sounded good, was looked at by a friend of mine that happens to be a bass luthier, and the difference in price. When my finances are in better shape however, I will be selling this bass and purchasing the Upton.

clink · #6 09-17-2006, 05:54 PM

I missed the option of getting a 203. If you can get one of those for under $2,000 it sounds like a good option to me. I'd buy online.
I think the 300 series has a carved top also. You might check those out.

fish slapper · #7 09-17-2006, 06:22 PM

The on-line option may not include a set-up. There are many ajustments to these instruments after delivery from the factory. And if you're talking HA in Seattle, it'll be worth the extra dough. My vote is buy local and spend a little more. You won't regret it.

Yukon4 · #8 09-17-2006, 06:53 PM

Thanks everyone - all very good information.

The Uptons are a serious consideration - they presently have a 2 month waiting list for basses though! plus we've never tried one out in person. I'm sure they're good as everyone says, but you just never know, it's such an individual thing. For instance, I've heard great stuff about Engleharts, but my son really didn't care for the neck when he tried one - said it was "too skinny". I don't suppose there are any distributors in WA for Upton Hawkes?

Has anyone ever dealt with Fantastic Musical Instruments? They seem to carry the complete line of Christophers at amazing prices. I can get the 203 for about $1600. They say they do a full setup. If we purchased online - whether Upton or some other place - we would go to our local luthier for adjustments, repairs, etc. I'm not planning to ship basses back and forth!

I'd love the Upton Hybrid - but we might have to wait and "trade up"...

clink · #9 09-17-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon4

Thanks everyone - all very good information.
Has anyone ever dealt with Fantastic Musical Instruments? They seem to carry the complete line of Christophers at amazing prices. I can get the 203 for about $1600. They say they do a full setup. If we purchased online - whether Upton or some other place - we would go to our local luthier for adjustments, repairs, etc. I'm not planning to ship basses back and forth!

I'd love the Upton Hybrid - but we might have to wait and "trade up"...

I've seen The FMI website and must admit I was tempted for a minute or two. It just seems to me their market is more towards the bluegrass or country player. While there is nothing wrong with that, basses must be set up for a particular playing style. You should still expect a bass from them to require a trip to your luthier and those guys cost money.

Regarding the Upton option. I was told when I ordered my Hawkes last week to expect delivery in 8-12 weeks. It is a testament to the demand for their product. If you chose to go that route, a short term rental would be an option.

The idea of buying a bass from a dealer 1100 miles away and having it shipped to a freight terminal is not something to be taken lightly. For me, the reputation of the instrument and dealer set up won me over. When my bass is on the bench, Jack will call me to discuss my playing style and expectations before doing the set up. That's what I would expect locally. If I don't like it, I expect it to hold it's value should I chose to sell it.

In the end, we make our choices and spend our money. There are no guarantees in life.

uptonbass · #10 09-17-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon4

I don't suppose there are any distributors in WA for Upton Hawkes?

Not at the moment but we may have a happy owner in the area. PM or email me if you would like me to check

Yukon4 · #11 09-17-2006, 08:40 PM

OK - I just PM'ed you. Thanks!

drurb · #12 09-17-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon4

Thanks everyone - all very good information.

The Uptons are a serious consideration - ... I'm sure they're good as everyone says, but you just never know, it's such an individual thing...

Well, IMHO, in that price range, it is really much less of an individual thing than in the price range of a fully carved bass. There really aren't all that many quality instruments to be had at the price-point in question. The Upton offers HUGE bang for the buck, an opinion you can easily find echoed in these threads time and time again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon4

If we purchased online - whether Upton or some other place - we would go to our local luthier for adjustments, repairs, etc. I'm not planning to ship basses back and forth!

I'd love the Upton Hybrid - but we might have to wait and "trade up"...

Well, one of the advantages of the Upton is that it will arrive with a pristine setup. It should need no adjustment at all. Given that it is not a carved bass, you will likely not need much at all in the way of maintenance or repair. Even if you do, IMHO, the advantages of buying the Upton and then developing a relationship with a luthier far outweigh foregoing that purchase in the first place in order to buy a Christopher locally.

If there is any chance at all that you can swing it, I'd go for the Upton hybrid. Yes, it is more $$$ but it would likely be a long time before you'd look to upgrade.

By the way, I'm a happy Upton customer and have played the basses being discussed.

Yukon4 · #13 09-18-2006, 12:55 AM

Very good points indeed. There is nothing like playing on a quality instrument - it makes a huge difference in the overall experience and enjoyment. Will be thinking this over carefully and reviewing the ole bank acct!
Thanks!

JimmyM · #14 09-18-2006, 01:17 AM

Pass on FMI. The owner is a jerk who lies to people in order to get them to divulge info that he uses against them. Meanwhile I've known Gary Upton for almost two years and he is one of the most honorable people in the business and in that time he has bent over backward to make sure I and other customers of his are satisfied.

relacey · #15 09-18-2006, 09:26 AM

I'm another very satisified Upton owner (Medio Fino hybrid). They are a class act and I can highly recommend them. I'd agree with DRURB, if at all possible get a hybrid. - Ron

Heifetzbass · #16 09-18-2006, 10:25 AM

When I purchased my "beater" bass, which is a Christopher 5-string, I got some quotes and let my local store have the opportunity to match it.

They did, and the luthier worked with me on the set up, etc... I think they still made money.

I just took the quote on paper that I printed off the internet and let them look it up for themselves. Most local businesses will do just about anything (within reason) to keep your business.

FWIW,
Brian

flint · #17 09-18-2006, 12:36 PM

Let me add my 2 cents to this discussion.

First let me relay my experience. unless the shop you are thinking of purchasing from is a dedicated bass shop, they may not have the technical ability to do a great bass setup. This was my experience. I did purchase from a (somewhat local) shop partly because of the idea of "lifetime adjustments", but became increasingly aware that I needed some real expertise. So I took my bass to a great bass luthier, and now have a christopher hybrid that probably sounds as good as it possibly can. It's loads better than a ply, and markedly better than some of the carved basses I've tried.

In the end, I don't think you can go wrong with the purchase of a Christopher, so at least that part of the equation is factored out.

Yukon4 · #18 09-18-2006, 01:25 PM

Wow. JimmyM's comments were kind of what I was wanting to get from the forum regarding FMI - thumbs up or thumbs down. Their prices on Christophers are quite attractive - as I said about $600-700 less than the local string shop. But a long distance relationship with a funky store could be a real nightmare. It doesn't sound like many folks (at least those reading all this) have ever purchased a DB from them.

Brian's suggestion of giving the local shop a chance to meet the online prices is a very good idea too. Thanks...

Yukon4 · #19 09-18-2006, 04:18 PM

Yes - ballpark is what I meant. It's such a large difference in price, but we would be happy if they could maybe include a bag and a bow, or even just a decent bow.

christ andronis · #20 09-18-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon4

Yes - ballpark is what I meant. It's such a large difference in price, but we would be happy if they could maybe include a bag and a bow, or even just a decent bow.

I thought a bag came with Christopher basses....not a very good one, but a bag nonetheless.