Decisions on Bass

[Basseroni]

I've played BG for over 25 years and would like to get into the upright game. The problem is that although I would like a "real" one, my apartment has very limited space to store one and basically, transporting it will be a ***** to deal with right now. I'm looking at the option of the Eminence bass since it is smaller and according to many reviews, gets the closest to a real upright sound in comparison to most of the other travel basses out there. I already have a teacher lined up who said that he could teach me on the Eminence as long as the fingerboard mirrors the dimensions of a URB. Now, I just have to try one out.

To you experienced URB players, do you think the Eminence option is effective?

[hdiddy]

Size isn't really an issue. The emminence pretty long already, it doesn't take much more to get into the real thing. You'll be surprised how easy it is to fit a 3/4 bass into pretty much any car. I've fit it in my girlfriends Infiniti, and people can attest to being able to put it in an old-school VW bug without any problems.

The emminence is pretty expensive as it is. You can get a decent hybrid bass for the price of one of those. My suggestion is that you shouldn't settle for less. If the sound of a DB is what you want, there's nothing that can fit the bill like the real thing. If size is that badly an issue for you, I'd look at the David Gage Czech-Ease instead.

Make sure you read the newbie links. This topic has been hashed over time after time.

[Basseroni]

I'll take that into consideration. The real thing is what I really want. Thanks for the info!

[LowNote]

This is a bit of a ramble, but your posting struck a nerve because I remember going through exactly the same thought process when I was getting started. When I first made the switch to string bass in the early 90's, I went down the same path as you and bought a Carruthers bass to learn on. This particular bass produces a zingy, fretless BG like tone that is not for me, and I was ultimately very frustrated at not having a "real" bass. However, it was good enough to get me started and hooked on the instrument.

Today, I own a few upright basses and an Eminence, all of which I like. The Eminence does sound as close to an acoustic as I've heard, particularly if you keep the volume of the amp down really low. I also think you could make a great deal of progress with a good teacher. However, as the other posters have said, I think you'll find yourself wanting the real thing sooner rather than later. If money is not that big of a deal, then you'll probably want to hang onto the Eminence because it is a joy to travel with and is wonderful for outdoor gigs and venues where the stage is really small since it takes up a lot less room than an upright.

I would follow your heart and do whatever it takes to get yourself started on this wonderful instrument. Given how much of a challenge it is to find just the right upright, I think the Eminence would be a great interim step that would allow you to decide if the string bass is for you, and give you time to learn what you want in a bass.

Erik Hansen
Los Angeles

[Basseroni]

Thanks Lownote. Did you get my PM?

[Basicbassist]

Originally Posted by Basseroni

I've played BG for over 25 years and would like to get into the upright game. The problem is that although I would like a "real" one, my apartment has very limited space to store one and basically, transporting it will be a ***** to deal with right now. I'm looking at the option of the Eminence bass since it is smaller and according to many reviews, gets the closest to a real upright sound in comparison to most of the other travel basses out there. I already have a teacher lined up who said that he could teach me on the Eminence as long as the fingerboard mirrors the dimensions of a URB. Now, I just have to try one out.

To you experienced URB players, do you think the Eminence option is effective?

Don't overlook Kolstein's (www.kolstein.com) LaFarro Travel Bass. It has a full dimensional neck, adjustable bridge and 5" deep ribs. It sounds fine by itself for practicing and it amplifies beautifully at all volumes

[PatrickC]

Originally Posted by Basicbassist

Don't overlook Kolstein's (www.kolstein.com) LaFarro Travel Bass. It has a full dimensional neck, adjustable bridge and 5" deep ribs. It sounds fine by itself for practicing and it amplifies beautifully at all volumes

For the price of the Kolstein you could get a carved double bass or a nice hybrid.

I've never played the Kolstein, but I own an Azola acoustic EUB. It's a very nice instrument -- wonderful for what it is, really. Much better than the Eminence, IMO. But the bottom line is this: it's not a double bass. And neither is the Kolstein Travel Bass or the Eminence.

If you want to play the double bass, buy a double bass. Later down the road, especially if you are traveling a lot, you may want to look into purchasing an EUB of some sort. In addition to -- not as a substitute for -- your real bass.

As hdiddy says, don't be freaked out by the size thing. It's really not a big deal. Just put the bass on a stand in the corner. Many bassists live in small apartments with one or more double basses. Just talk to some of the New Yorkers who frequent this site.

[Basicbassist]

Originally Posted by PatrickC

For the price of the Kolstein you could get a carved double bass or a nice hybrid.

I've never played the Kolstein, but I own an Azola acoustic EUB. It's a very nice instrument -- wonderful for what it is, really. Much better than the Eminence, IMO. But the bottom line is this: it's not a double bass. And neither is the Kolstein Travel Bass or the Eminence.

If you want to play the double bass, buy a double bass. Later down the road, especially if you are traveling a lot, you may want to look into purchasing an EUB of some sort. In addition to -- not as a substitute for -- your real bass.

As hdiddy says, don't be freaked out by the size thing. It's really not a big deal. Just put the bass on a stand in the corner. Many bassists live in small apartments with one or more double basses. Just talk to some of the New Yorkers who frequent this site.

With all due respect, Mr.PC, the question centered on the gent's self-described limited space and his inquiry as to how to get the most bass-bang out of a less-than-full-size acoustic bass format. It had nothing to do with cost. Yes, with $5k in their pocket, a bassist has many options as to how best to convert it into a good instrument. However, that wasn't the question.

By the way, I think it is incorrect to categorically dismiss the Kolstein Travel Bass as not being a double bass. While its body is diminutive in comparison to a standard size bass, the body is, nonetheless, an acoustic chamber made of wood that resonates double-bass register notes that eminate from a full-dimensional neck that has a nearly full-length mensur. We recognize small dimension basses - "1/2", 5/8", even "piccolo" basses as basses, no? I can recall when bassist Dr. Lynn Christie (sp?) went to a really small axe in order to fit it into his very small '70's era Japanese sub-compact for transport around New York City. Lots of guys laughed, but it still was recognized as an acoustic bass.

[hdiddy]

Well the Kolstein bass is nice, but the original poster already said he wants the real thing. For $5K, he can get a really nice carved bass. I think the travel bass thing is a moot point for him now.

[PatrickC]

Originally Posted by Basicbassist

With all due respect, Mr.PC, the question centered on the gent's self-described limited space and his inquiry as to how to get the most bass-bang out of a less-than-full-size acoustic bass format. It had nothing to do with cost. Yes, with $5k in their pocket, a bassist has many options as to how best to convert it into a good instrument. However, that wasn't the question.

Bass guitarists wanting to switch to upright often have the same misconceptions about the double bass: that the size is too big for their car or home or hands, that an EUB is almost the same thing as a double bass, that you should shop by name brand the way you would for an electric bass, etc. Reading Basseroni's post, it seems he may have shared some of these misconceptions. I think it's more helpful to Basseroni, and to other beginners who may be reading, to clear up these misconceptions rather than to just give answers which, while technically addressing the questions posed, are ultimately bad advice.

I don't doubt the Kolstein Travel Bass is a fine instrument for what it is. My point is that it isn't a good instrument for a beginner. Much of learning the bass is learning to work with the physicality of the instrument. If you've learning on a travel bass or EUB, you're not dealing with the same physicality.

I also know, without having played the instrument, that it doesn't match the sound of a double bass. Why? Because of the laws of physics. If it was possible to make a big full-bottomed acoustic sound on an instrument of this size, instrument makers would have been making them that way since the 1700's. Here's a post from someone who has played the Travel Bass. I'm not surprised by his findings, and I doubt many double bassists would be.

I do not think a beginner should start on the Kolstein Travel Bass or an Azola or an Eminence. Better to buy one after he acquires some skills and gets a call for that big tour. When he really needs one.

[Scottgun]

If I can get a double-bass into a Toyota Corolla, I think you can conquer the size issue.


Scott

[Basseroni]

Wow! It's getting a little heated in here. But seriously, thank you guys so much for your input. PC, I totally see where you're coming from and was thinking about that very thing this morning. That led me to my final decision to save up for the real thing. I'm looking at the Englehart ES-1 right now which, with all of the accessories included, is $1000 less than the Eminence.

Again, this GIRL thanks you guys so much.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Basseroni

Wow! It's getting a little heated in here.

Man, you are new here....

Anyway... good choice. Moving basses around and storing them is not a big deal. Buy what you'll play.

[PatrickC]

Originally Posted by Basseroni

Wow! It's getting a little heated in here. But seriously, thank you guys so much for your input. PC, I totally see where you're coming from and was thinking about that very thing this morning. That led me to my final decision to save up for the real thing. I'm looking at the Englehart ES-1 right now which, with all of the accessories included, is $1000 less than the Eminence.

Smart choice.

Originally Posted by Basseroni

Again, this GIRL thanks you guys so much.

Oops! My bad.

[downneck]

if you've got the dough, i heartily recommend the merchant vertical eub. if you're near ny, email bill and ask to stop by his shop and play one.

http://merchantbass.com

[hdiddy]

Originally Posted by downneck

if you've got the dough, i heartily recommend the merchant vertical eub. if you're near ny, email bill and ask to stop by his shop and play one.

http://merchantbass.com

Haven't you read everything that's been said in this thread?!?!?

Originally Posted by BASSERONIANDCHEESE

I'm looking at the Englehart ES-1 right now which, with all of the accessories included, is $1000 less than the Eminence.

The 2nd tip is to buy the most you can afford. I'm sure the Engle is a playable bass, but you should considering throwing some more into it to get something even more satisfying. For $1800 you can get yourself a decent Shen or Christopher plywood bass which will probably play alot better than the Engle. There's many more makers to choose from than the two I just mentioned. For $2300-2500 you can get a decent hybrid bass from the same chinese makers I just mentioned. I'm pretty happy with the hybrid Christopher I've had for 4 years now. I originally paid $2400 for it, which is still a little less than the Eminence. It defintely sounds 20 times better than the Eminence that I tried once.

IMO, basses are usually very much a "get what you pay for" kind of thing. Don't skimp if you can avoid it. Try to "try before you buy". Go find some local dealers/luthiers and try as many basses as you can, even if you don't know how to play a single note. You'll be able to tell which ones are good and which ones aren't. Just don't be in a hurry to get one.

[Jsn]

Sounds like Basseroni is already convinced, but I just wanted to empathize with her. It's such a tempting option, to "start out" on an EUB. And while the best of them can indeed be made (under certain circumstances) to approximate the sound of an upright, consider this: how will you know when you're coaxing an "upright" sound out of it, if you haven't experienced that sound firsthand?

This is particularly true with arco. There are subtle aspects of the tone, and nuances of playing, that are only going to come from moving air through the wood into your ears. Even an all-ply bass like that Englehart is going to give you a tonal palette that will inform your playing from the get-go.

Not to be snobbish about EUBs; I actually have a soft spot for them, and I probably have at least a Palatino or two in my future. But they're more useful when you already know what sound you're going after, not when you're still discovering that sound.

Does this make sense?

[hdiddy]

Yah it does. I have an NSDesign CR4 myself. I like it for what it is, an EUB, not as a substitute for a DB.

I was hesitant as well when I bought mine not too long ago and started out. I took a leap of faith and dove in headfirst. I just went out one day, noodled with some basses, and come home with one. $2400 was the most I ever paid for an instrument, but I just kinda went by what I heard in my ears and what the instrument felt like. I dunno about all of you, but it just felt "right" in my hands. I've played many different instruments and this is the one I feel "at home" with.

For myself, I just kept in mind that the sound I made at first was very immature. That with alot of practicing and help from teachers, I'd be able to coax an even better sound out of it. At the time when I bought my bass, I already liked the sound I was making with it, despite my lack of skill. Arco is hard, no doubt about it, but pizz is the thing almost anybody can do. Getting a good tone comes later.

But BASS'NCHEESE has been playing for EB 25 years. I would think she would know what kind of sounds she likes. Even if she can't pizz on a DB well, she should be able to discern what basses she likes more by the sounds they produce. That's why I was recommending that anyone in her position try as many basses as possible, just to get an idea of what they're like. If a bass produces a pleasing tone while the player lacks in skill, I would tend to think that it's partly inherent in the bass that it sounds good naturally.

I suppose you could do other things to, like go to shows where the bassist is a DB player. Find out what it's like live. Find a teacher and see what his bass plays like. And if you're still hesitant, go rent a bass. My main point being: Don't be in a hurry, and keep trying basses. I was too much in a hurry myself, and sometimes wished I hadn't been so impulsive but I ended up with a decent bass anyhow.

[Silversorcerer]

Hi Basseroni, if we didn't scare you off, welcome to the DARK side. There 's a bunch of stuff on EUB's on that forum, but I'll cut to the chase. I was checking your profile (ahem ...) and since you have 5 strings on your MM, you might want that on your DB or EUB also. When I got my 5-string DB and was switching back and forth to my old 4 string P, it got a little confusing because even though they are really different instruments, I tended to construct my lines the same way. Now I'm all fives and life is easier.

Check out the Clevinger EUBs also. Not many talk about these on the forum, but Clevinger has been doing their thing longer than most of the other makers and have advanced the sound more than others. These are true dimension instruments with respect to the neck and string, (up to 42" string scale) and have a very convincing sound both arco and pizzacato. I'm assuming that you'd like to use a bow on it. I tend to agree with others that think it would be best if you got an acoustic DB;- over here we kind of assume a DB is acoustic. When you take the amp out of the picture, and for many situations you can, particularly when the other instruments are also acoustic, the transportation situation kind of balances out.

If you do opt for the Eminence (I think it is too much money for what it is really), the model with the removable neck saves space on a plane ride, but unless you do a lot of travel on a plane, trust me, you don't want the hassle of having to put your bass together, take it apare, etc. that often. If travel is mostly by automobile, give some serious thought to an actual 3/4 DB. Five strings are rare, but if you want that also, you can find it. The four string ones are more common, but 5 is kind of the European orchestra preference. A real DB is going to be so much more rewarding in terms of the musical experience. That's why we really want to encourage you to start with one of those. The pogo sticks just don't have the vibe.

Oh BTW, we just disagree over here on the DARK side. We NEVER argue. We're all friends! Hope to see more of you and let us know how your shopping turns out.

[Basseroni]

Wow! A diversity of information! Thanks so much!

No, I'm not scared off. Yet!

It's going to be awhile before I make my purchase being that I want to take my time checking out different ones before I commit.

Again, thank you guys for your input. It really helped.