Desicion! Repair the Kay or Buy a New Shen

kageronyc · #1 02-26-2011, 09:45 AM

Hey All,

Just started with the forum, love it, first post:

My 10 month old pulled over my 1949 Kay C-1 (5 secs after my wife said "you better move that" . . . lesson learned). Broke the neck pretty bad.

Brought it up to Upton in CT. There were some previous repairs on it, so to repair it right, it will need a new neck, about $1,800 worth of repair. They will do it right, and make it better than it was out of the factory.

Or I can get a new Shen from them for the same money. I played one, and it does feel great, and really loud.

I've had the Kay for 20 years, it's the only bass I've ever owned and I have a great sentimental attachment to it. It's an amazing instrument, but the Shen felt sturdier. Upton also has that great warranty, as well in as a generous trade in option with the Shen if I ever wanted to upgrade.

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm leaning towards repairing the Kay . . . .

Thanks!
Rob Simpson
bass for Kagero, Japanese Gypsy Rock
www.kagero.com

Jack Clark · #2 02-26-2011, 09:59 AM

Hi, and welcome. I'm not the one you want to respond to your question, but I'm sure you'll get some good ones.

But I am interested in a DB myself and would like to know which Shen you were offered for $1800. I can't seem to find a Shen for that price on Upton's website.

It would also help responders a lot if you would please fill out your profile. That lets them know about your background and experience—generally where you're coming from.

kageronyc · #3 02-26-2011, 10:48 AM

Thanks Jack. I filled out my profile, per your suggestion.

I would call Upton. There are many more options for Shen than what they list online.
1-860-535-9399

I don't remember which model was $1,800. It was not the base model, but the next one up.

Rob

arseniotall · #4 02-26-2011, 11:25 AM

o man I've been there! My dog knocked my Kay over and broke the neck. I got mine repaired for a lot less though. I probably didn't have some of the issues you are having. If the Shen sounds and feels better than you remember the Kay sounding I would get the Shen. I couldnt find a better sounding bass at my estimate price, so it was a no brainer for me. After my repair the neck is alot sturdy than it used to be, but don't expect the instrument to sound THAT much better than it used to be if you are just getting a new neck. Hope I helped....a little.

jtlownds · #5 02-26-2011, 11:36 AM

I will probably get flamed for this. Over the last 50+ years, I have owned a long line of Kay C=1s, and IMHO, they are crap instruments. I don't think that a Kay C=1 is worth $1800, and putting that much money into repairs is like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If I were you, I would cut my losses, and invest the money into a decent bass, like the Shen.

tomshepp · #6 02-26-2011, 11:56 AM

I have a pre war M1W that is in original condition. It has never suffered the all too common, neck break. Just to see what would happen, I asked a local shop if they would be willing to trade a Shen SB90 for it. The shop was willing to do it in a heartbeat. I held off. I've had the Kay for a long time. The Shen was nice too.

Thing is, there is a perceived mystique about old Kay basses, such that, some will pay a lot for them. I think the Shen could be a comparable bass in terms of playability and sound with your old, repaired Kay, maybe better. Therefore, you and only you can make the determination of the sentimental value in holding on to your "old friend". Maybe, keep the Kay and go for the other bass down the road a bit. Best of luck.

pauliebass · #7 02-26-2011, 11:57 AM

I just wrote an impression review of a Shen 2 minutes ago. See "Fairly impressed with a Shen"

robgrow · #8 02-26-2011, 12:35 PM

I have owned a couple of Kays over the years and also a Shen more recently. The Shen you played was probably an SB100, which is a nice bass for the money. If it was me, I'd probably buy the new Shen.

fdeck · #9 02-26-2011, 12:43 PM

Buy me a bottom-of-the-line Shen, and I'll give you my Kay.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #10 02-26-2011, 01:11 PM

Get a second opinion. I go to Bill Merchant. Call him. Bob Gollihur's site has a national directory of luthiers.

LeslieD · #11 02-26-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

Buy me a bottom-of-the-line Shen, and I'll give you my Kay.

Too funny! I think Kay basses are often over-rated and I hated the ones I played in Jr. High and High School.

I think there are good reasons to own and play a Kay (especially if you mostly play bluegrass), and I'm always impressed by the work that MollyKay and her husband do. I can also appreciate the fact that you are attached to that particular bass. Definitely get that second opinion that KungFuSheriff suggested, and try a few other basses (i.e. the Upton laminate bass with gamba corners for $2200) before you plunk down $1800 for repairs.

Jason Sypher · #12 02-26-2011, 01:52 PM

I have no idea what the neck looks like or what's involved in the repair. You may be able to get a cheaper fit. I know Merchant can come in a little cheaper on certain types of repairs. I would focus on the Shen for a bit, like a buyer. I would take it out on trial and see how it feels in the practice room and on the gig. Ask your fellow musicians who you normally play with how it feels to them. They know the sound of the Kay just about as good as anyone by now. Ask other bass players you respect to try the bass out as well. Then make a decision. Move on or go back to the old standby. If you decide to move on and go for the Shen I would contact Molly Kay here on the boards and see if her 'bassmonkey' might be interested in taking it off your hands. Bassmonkey and Molly lovingly restore old Kay's to their proper glory. If, after the Kay is restored, you visit it and fall in love again, sell the Shen and get your old baby back. By that time you will have gotten to know the pros and cons of the Shen.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #13 02-26-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomshepp

I have a pre war M1W that is in original condition. It has never suffered the all too common, neck break. Just to see what would happen, I asked a local shop if they would be willing to trade a Shen SB90 for it. The shop was willing to do it in a heartbeat. I held off. I've had the Kay for a long time. The Shen was nice too.

Thing is, there is a perceived mystique about old Kay basses, such that, some will pay a lot for them. I think the Shen could be a comparable bass in terms of playability and sound with your old, repaired Kay, maybe better. Therefore, you and only you can make the determination of the sentimental value in holding on to your "old friend". Maybe, keep the Kay and go for the other bass down the road a bit. Best of luck.

Totally agree. If there was no such thing as a "market value" that rates "collector mojo" or whatever it's called and the object was to have the bass that played and sounded best, I'd go for the Shen SB-100 in a heartbeat. I have one in my office (owned by my school), and it's a great workhorse bass. John Goldsby played it all last year during the Aebersold workshops, even on the concerts after I'd asked him if he wanted a higher end bass to use for the faculty concerts. His answer was basically, "thanks, but I'm used to this one by now".

However, add in market value and you have another story. If the value of the bass to you is related to sentimental or other mojo, then the Kay will be more valuable. If it's all about the playing and sturdiness/reliability, then the Shen is likely a better bet.

drurb · #14 02-26-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Totally agree. If there was no such thing as a "market value" that rates "collector mojo" or whatever it's called and the object was to have the bass that played and sounded best, I'd go for the Shen SB-100 in a heartbeat. I have one in my office (owned by my school), and it's a great workhorse bass. John Goldsby played it all last year during the Aebersold workshops, even on the concerts after I'd asked him if he wanted a higher end bass to use for the faculty concerts. His answer was basically, "thanks, but I'm used to this one by now".

However, add in market value and you have another story. If the value of the bass to you is related to sentimental or other mojo, then the Kay will be more valuable. If it's all about the playing and sturdiness/reliability, then the Shen is likely a better bet.

In the years I've been a TB member, there have been those times that another member elegantly expressed precisely my own thoughts. This is one of those times. Perfect, Chris. Perfect.

kageronyc · #15 02-26-2011, 03:02 PM

Wow! You all are fantastic. Thanks so much for all the great info. Upton is my 5th opinion, actually. His quote is about average from the other bass shops, and bass repair guys that I've been to, including David Gage. Upton has the best combo of repair costs, plus trade in value for the Kay. Plus he explained in great detail how he would do the repair, including getting a new neck from Engelhardt.

I will contact Molly Kay, though and see what she says about it.

One item of note, the Kay signature on the back of the headstock is upside down. Upton said he'd never seen that before, possibly a product of a rough Monday morning?

Thanks all of you again! Still confused, but more informed in my confusion.

fdeck · #16 02-26-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeslieD

I think there are good reasons to own and play a Kay (especially if you mostly play bluegrass), and I'm always impressed by the work that MollyKay and her husband do. I can also appreciate the fact that you are attached to that particular bass.

Definitely. In my case, I'd prefer the neck geometry and other particulars of a Shen SB80 over my Kay, for the playing that I do.

Oh, and it has to be set up by my luthier.

tomshepp · #17 02-26-2011, 05:15 PM

I'll say this; Without playing them side by side, my old Kay put out more sound, by a pretty wide margin. That's why I held off on the trade. My bass has Innovation Super Silvers and the Shen had Spiro weichs. I'm sure that in order to really compare, you'd need to do a "side by side" same strings etc.

That said, is there any reason, that older ply basses will sound better than new plys? We know that with carved basses the more they're played the better they sound.

Chasarms · #18 02-26-2011, 05:22 PM

I've probably played and/or heard 50-60 Kay/Engelhardts at various folk, old-time and BG festivals. There wasn't one I would trade my SB-180 for.

MollyKay · #19 02-26-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kageronyc

Wow! You all are fantastic. Thanks so much for all the great info.

I will contact Molly Kay, though and see what she says about it.

Thanks all for your appreciation and kinds words. We would love to help you out if we can. It is true we love vintage American made plywood’s. For us it is more about keeping the vintage plywood’s in good condition for others to enjoy. Kay bass’s love’em or leave’em, many a bass player would not have gotten the opportunity to start their playing career with out these student grade basses in our public school system from the 1940-1950’s. They have their place in our low end word. We have a vast collection of vintage plywood basses that we love to share and hear played. You are welcome to visit!

Additionally your neck can’t be much worse then this one, it was a real challenge to keep the original neck with this bass…which we accomplished.

Best wishes with your decision and choices.

tstone · #20 02-26-2011, 05:58 PM

I don't think that financial considerations should be at the top of your list, but they should be ON that list somewhere, even if near the bottom.

With that in mind: the Kay is probably going to go up in value as the years go by, the Shen, probably not. That's not a knock on Shens, I own one, and I love it. But the Shen factory cranks out dozens of basses every day, and there are only so many Kays left out there, fewer every year. That gives them a certain mystique, deserved or not.

Having said all that, I personally would go with the bass that I liked the best.