Do splits/cracks matter?

Stompbox · #1 06-05-2008, 02:34 PM

I have looked at and read about double basses for some time now. I am an electric bass guitar player in ENorth West England, and I am looking to get a double bass.

I have been offered a Stentor 2 bass (3/4 size) which is all of solid/carved wood rather than laminated. It has been restrung with decent strings, the nut has been trimmed as it was high and the bridge cut and then fitted with a pair of adjustable thumbwheels on posts in the centre of the bridge so you can adjust the action easily and quickly.

It plays well (to my ears) and comes with a bow, the original "Arco" strings as spares and a gig bag/soft case. All this for £500 from the music shop.

It is a "new" bass, but the guy buys them cheaply from his supplier if they are marked/damaged and sets up modifies/tweaks them as above to sell on. The down side is that it has a split at the bottom of the back about 9" long which has been glued up he pointed this out to me and told me that this is what he does so, he says, you get a bass which would be nearer £1000which is already set up and improved for half price because of the splits/marks which do not detract from the tone.

I know that basses/cellos etc DO get splits/marks on them - as with guitars and at least then you can say "It came like that - I didn't do it." Fender guitars, of course, do their "Custom Shop" range where they pre age new guitars and put wear and tear marks on them before you buy!

I saw a 4/4 orchestral bass in Manchester (Johnny Roadhouse's shop) which was an really old piece and hugely expensive. It sounded great and had a MASSIVE sound, but looked like a train wreck - it had had many splits, knocks and repairs over the years.

My question is :- Does this sound like a good buy to you guys, and do you see the split as a problem? - as I say it has been glued and no attempt has been made to refinish it or varnish over it.

I know that this is cheap in the grand scheme of things, but it is a lot of cash to me.
Thank for any and all input.

bassteban · #2 06-05-2008, 02:40 PM

A glued wooden joint can be stronger than the surrounding wood; a well-repaired crack or split should not ruin a bass. Can you post a picture? Is this seller reputable? Is he known on TB?

toman · #3 06-05-2008, 07:30 PM

A new bass that cracks before its even sold doesn't sound like a fun proposition to me! Unless its just damaged in shipping or something.

Jake deVilliers · #4 06-05-2008, 09:21 PM

I wouldn't let a repaired crack put me off.

If it cracked because it was green wood shrinking, I would think twice about the bass, but if it was shipping damage or an open seam, no problem.

The most important thing is if the seller will work with you if you have a problem down the road. If you feel like you guys can build a relationship, that's important for your future needs, whether setup and repair or moving on to a better bass.

Stompbox · #5 06-06-2008, 01:53 AM

Thanks for your answers - perhaps I didn't make it clear - the dealer has deliberately bought it as a transit damaged bass - not a split due to shrinkage.

Reagrds,

Stompbox.

toman · #6 06-06-2008, 02:13 AM

Ahh. No worries then. I don't know that I'd pay quite the same as an undamaged one though. Just because.

MJC · #7 06-06-2008, 04:06 PM

I recommend making an offer on the bass with the massive sound and looks like a train wreck

.

bassbrock · #8 06-06-2008, 04:10 PM

Sound first, appearance second.

uprightben · #9 06-12-2008, 09:11 AM

Does the bass play well and sound good to you without any buzzes or rattles? This should be the main factor in determining if this is a good bass for you. Also do some research to make sure that this fellow is not dodgey: find other retailers who sell this brand and confirm that this is a 1000 quid bass as he claims, and ask who made the repair and find out if it is a reputable luthier.

Silversorcerer · #10 06-12-2008, 07:50 PM

Repair methods and materials might make a difference in how well the repair will hold up. Best repairs of cracks in the back or top use cleats and hide glue to seal the crack. Many times if it is done right you can't see it too well from the outside. If the fellow does many of these this way, he probably does a good job. I routinely purchase busted classical guitars at salvage prices and fix them up for personal use or resale. A well repaired instrument often is as good sounding as one of equal workmanship that is undamaged, and a good repair will usually last a very long time.

If he will give you a reasonable warranty period on the repair, say a year as long as you don't bounce the instrument around, I think it is a good deal.

jayarroz · #11 06-18-2008, 08:39 PM

to pull a top or back off runs about 600 us to fix, something to think about. Cracks get worse if not fixed properly!

nicfargo · #12 06-19-2008, 12:35 PM

If he's a reputable luthier, I'd say go for it. Who makes the bass to begin with and what kind is it? Hand carved for 1,000 quid? I'm guessing for that price it'd be entry level hand carved, in which case don't expect too much. But, if it sounds good to you, and feels good, then that's all that matters (from what I've been told).

toman · #13 06-19-2008, 12:59 PM

^^^ I'm not sure what a quid is worth, but if its anywhere close to a dollar, that's not a hand made bass.

pfactor2 · #14 06-19-2008, 03:03 PM

My friend who is also a private teacher has a old german bass with collapsed and repaired body with glue ozing from everwhere, but its sounds great.

nicfargo · #15 06-19-2008, 03:45 PM

toman,
the quid is, last I checked, 2 quid to one dollar. So at 1000 quid, you're looking at $2,000 dollars. This could be a carved bass like the OP said, however I would bet it is at least a hybrid of some sort.

toman · #16 06-19-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicfargo

toman,
the quid is, last I checked, 2 quid to one dollar. So at 1000 quid, you're looking at $2,000 dollars. This could be a carved bass like the OP said, however I would bet it is at least a hybrid of some sort.

It could be a bass with a top made of solid wood, but not likely shaped by hand. As for laminated sides and back... I'm starting to question the difference they make!

jayarroz · #17 06-20-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

It could be a bass with a top made of solid wood, but not likely shaped by hand. As for laminated sides and back... I'm starting to question the difference they make!

what do you mean, you don't think laminate sides and back make the bass sound different? I actually agree and went with a hybrid beacause I have no crack issues no sound post changes every season here in New England.

Stompbox · #18 06-26-2008, 11:49 AM

Hey there guys - thanks for all the iput. I still haven't been able to get back to see the bass as the guy who has the music shop is awaay with hs wife on a short holiday for three weeks. I don't believe it is a hand carved bass, but it is a Chinese made Stentorand made (allegedly) from solid wood - I suppose it may well be machine cut and then steamed/moulded into shape??. In the meantime a friend of mine has heard of another bass for sale - I am waiting to hear from the seller who has had it for a couple of years and got it off a pro bass player.

I will write again to say how I am progressing in my search!

All the best,

Geoff

toman · #19 06-26-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayarroz

what do you mean, you don't think laminate sides and back make the bass sound different? I actually agree and went with a hybrid beacause I have no crack issues no sound post changes every season here in New England.

I'm not so sure they make that much difference, at least not enough to justify the risk of cracking and the cost. I've played a handful of basses recently with laminated backs and solid ribs/top and laminated backs/ribs and solid top that were perfectly acceptable. A couple were older basses with rather funky laminated backs that sounded comparable to similar basses with solid (flat) backs, and the laminates seemed healthier. Others were newer basses with fully solid counterparts that didn't seem any better, especially considering the price gap.

I'm thinking the issue of laminated sides and backs is less significant than a number of others, and may even be a benefit in the long run.

Perhaps a compromise of a hand made bass with a great top and construction combined with less expensive laminated sides and back would produce an affordable, practical choice for the working musician.

nicfargo · #20 06-27-2008, 12:49 PM

There's nothing wrong with laminate back and ribs with a hand-carved top, basically gives you more punch and volume, which seems to be the preference of Jazz players.

OP, you said the bass's belly was machine cut and molded...I'm not sure if this has an effect on sound or not, but these types of basses generally go for much cheaper then hand-carved basses. Just FYI. I'd still think it's a decent deal, but only if you think the bass sounds good.