Does bowing improve an instrument

ZonGuy · #1 11-18-2007, 05:50 PM

I have an EC-1 which I bought second hand 7 years ago to thump on and was never really crazy about tone-wise or volume wise. Mostly stayed in the case.

Then I started bowing the instrument (swapped the spiros out for helos) 6 months ago and now the instrument sound seems to have improved for both pizz and arco.

Am I imagining things?

drurb · #2 11-18-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonGuy

I have an EC-1 which I bought second hand 7 years ago to thump on and was never really crazy about tone-wise or volume wise. Mostly stayed in the case.

Then I started bowing the instrument (swapped the spiros out for helos) 6 months ago and now the instrument sound seems to have improved for both pizz and arco.

Am I imagining things?

Search this forum for all the threads on "opening up." You might be especially interested in this one. Also, there is an interesting thread concerning short-term warm-up of the bass here.

D McCartney · #3 11-19-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonGuy

I have an EC-1 which I bought second hand 7 years ago to thump on and was never really crazy about tone-wise or volume wise. Mostly stayed in the case.

Then I started bowing the instrument (swapped the spiros out for helos) 6 months ago and now the instrument sound seems to have improved for both pizz and arco.

Am I imagining things?

I too have noticed improvement in sound from using the bow, but I think it is by improving me, not the instrument.

pdbass · #4 11-19-2007, 12:47 PM

Read the old posts. VIBRATION is the key. Continual vibration "opens up" wooden instruments. That's why (chances are) a 200 year-old instrument will sound better than a new one. The wood has been played and vibrated over time, opening up the instrument. It's no secret. The more you play your instrument, especially when you vibrate it with that bow, the better it sounds.

drurb · #5 11-19-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdbass

Read the old posts. VIBRATION is the key. Continual vibration "opens up" wooden instruments. That's why (chances are) a 200 year-old instrument will sound better than a new one. The wood has been played and vibrated over time, opening up the instrument. It's no secret. The more you play your instrument, especially when you vibrate it with that bow, the better it sounds.

It is worth pointing out that, while playing and vibration may contribute to the sound one hears from an older instrument, there are other factors at work as well. As far as I can tell, vibration may play a role in the early life of the instrument.

Michael Case · #6 11-19-2007, 02:45 PM

I think playing the bass with the bow has some effect on the bass, but a lot more effect on the player. Plus you did switch strings which could have a huge effect too. From what I remember, Heliocores are lower tension than Spirocores.

anonymous02282011 · #7 11-19-2007, 02:46 PM

bowing will open up a bass. the vibration thing. yea. fo sho.

anonymous02282011 · #8 11-19-2007, 02:48 PM

and it's good for your intonation too.

pdbass · #9 11-19-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

It is worth pointing out that, while playing and vibration may contribute to the sound one hears from an older instrument, there are other factors at work as well. As far as I can tell, vibration may play a role in the early life of the instrument.

There's a reason that the Smithsonian uses a vibrating machine on its Stradivarius instruments. To keep them "playable" and in playing-shape. There is no doubt that vibration, especially the kind that can be generated by bowing, can make an instrument sound better over long periods of time.

Keep bowing.

brianh · #10 11-19-2007, 03:05 PM

I definately think so. My bass always sounds better if I warm up for a bit with the bow.

When I bought my 200 year old German bass, it was being used as a third backup instrument to a symphony player (Imagine having a 20k bass not as your backup, but as a backup for your backup!). He had played it in college and used it ocasionally for outdoor concerts, but in general I think it didn't see much use. I have definately noticed a major improvement in the sound, especially low register, since I've owned it (and bowed it a lot).

drurb · #11 11-19-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdbass

There's a reason that the Smithsonian uses a vibrating machine on its Stradivarius instruments. To keep them "playable" and in playing-shape. There is no doubt that vibration, especially the kind that can be generated by bowing, can make an instrument sound better over long periods of time.

Keep bowing.

I'm not so sure about the long-term effects. We've been through this many times on TB. Suffice it to say that there are differing opinions even within the scientific community on this subject. I'm staying neutral for now.

ZonGuy · #12 11-19-2007, 06:03 PM

Yes, I switched from Spiro's to Helos when I started bowing. The drop in volume was very noticeable.

But after bowing for months, my "inexpensive" instrument has definitely gotten louder for both pizz and arco. My wife noticed this as well.

wineaux · #13 11-20-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZonGuy

But after bowing for months, my "inexpensive" instrument has definitely gotten louder for both pizz and arco. My wife noticed this as well.

ZonGuy -- When you say your wife noticed, I hope you mean in a good way!

I'm no scientific expert, but it does make sense that vibration would, over time, loosen glue and relax the wood and make for better sound conduction. But it also seems logical that over time it will eventually relax as much as it is going to relax.

Now, if we were scientists, we could conduct an experiment. All of us on this forum would buy identical new basses, with government grants, of course. One-third of us would play only pizz, one third of us would play only arco and one third of us would leave the bass stand in the corner without touching it. Of course, our music rooms would have to be identically constructed and temperature and humidity would have to be the same in every room and ...

Oh never mind. Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

accutone · #14 11-20-2007, 02:16 PM

[quote=wineaux;4931196]
I'm no scientific expert,

Now, if we were scientists, [/QUOTE

Although I doubt this thread is going to provide the defintive answer, I would like to point that drurb IS a scientist, but even he can't answer this question. Some people also argue that WHO plays the bass makes a difference. Happy holiday!

KSB - Ken Smith · #15 11-20-2007, 02:41 PM

The Bow moves more sound and more sustaining sound then does Pizz playing. It is only logical to assume that Bowing the Bass is the most effective way to help develop and maintain the maximum tone of your Bass. For most of their lives old Basses were mainly played with the Bow 95% of the time before jazz and similar styles were developed.

The other way and along with bowing the Bass to improve and maintain your Bass's sound is to keep it in good repair order.

Pizz will help in breaking in a Bass but Bowing it does it better and quicker as it moves more consistent volumes of air.

Bob Branstetter · #16 11-20-2007, 05:41 PM

I was taught by my late mentor that instruments have to be played or they will "go to sleep". For a long time, I thought this was just an old wives (or old violin makers) tale. However, I once changed basses and did not play my original for over a year. When I did go back to my original bass, it was stiff and unresponsive. It was kept exactly as it had been for the many years I played it, but for a year it did not get played. After I used the Reumont vibration dedamping process on it, the bass came alive again and this is the bass I use today. The Reumont process is a patented (Germany) mechanical system for "breaking in". IMO, Bowing does the same thing, but takes longer. I've never been able to find a plausible reason for why instruments "go to sleep", but I am a firm believer that it does in fact happen and it can be reversed.

ZonGuy · #17 11-20-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I was taught by my late mentor that instruments have to be played or they will "go to sleep". For a long time, I thought this was just an old wives (or old violin makers) tale. However, I once changed basses and did not play my original for over a year. When I did go back to my original bass, it was stiff and unresponsive. It was kept exactly as it had been for the many years I played it, but for a year it did not get played. After I used the Reumont vibration dedamping process on it, the bass came alive again and this is the bass I use today. The Reumont process is a patented (Germany) mechanical system for "breaking in". IMO, Bowing does the same thing, but takes longer. I've never been able to find a plausible reason for why instruments "go to sleep", but I am a firm believer that it does in fact happen and it can be reversed.

Aha, this must be why they that guy in Cremona Italy, to play the violins in the Stradivarius museum 3 x a week.

D McCartney · #18 11-21-2007, 06:56 AM

I am envious of you guys who can remember how your bass sounded a year ago. My memory is just not that good.

drurb · #19 11-21-2007, 10:37 AM

[quote=accutone;4931388]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wineaux

I'm no scientific expert,

Now, if we were scientists, [/QUOTE

Although I doubt this thread is going to provide the defintive answer, I would like to point that drurb IS a scientist, but even he can't answer this question. Some people also argue that WHO plays the bass makes a difference. Happy holiday!

True enough, and even in the field of acoustics. The sort of experiment described above actually was done with violins. FWIW, in one study, they found no substantial difference between those that were played and those that were not. I have not been able to dig into, nor do I care to dig into, the details of that study in order to evaluate it. It would be quite a task and I'm not sure that even then, I'd have sufficient information. For now, as I said earlier, I'm remaining neutral.

drurb · #20 11-21-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I was taught by my late mentor that instruments have to be played or they will "go to sleep". For a long time, I thought this was just an old wives (or old violin makers) tale. However, I once changed basses and did not play my original for over a year. When I did go back to my original bass, it was stiff and unresponsive. It was kept exactly as it had been for the many years I played it, but for a year it did not get played. After I used the Reumont vibration dedamping process on it, the bass came alive again and this is the bass I use today. The Reumont process is a patented (Germany) mechanical system for "breaking in". IMO, Bowing does the same thing, but takes longer. I've never been able to find a plausible reason for why instruments "go to sleep", but I am a firm believer that it does in fact happen and it can be reversed.

Controlled scientific studies aside, I believe that one does have to assign substantial weight to the experiences of and conclusions reached by experts such as Bob.