does size affects scale length?

tbassist4 · #1 08-28-2005, 12:17 PM

This just recently hit me. My school is purchasing a bass that I can use there so I dont have to bring mine back and forth. My bass is a full 4/4, and the one that the school is purchasing is a 3/4. I was just wondering, does the size also affect the scale length of the strings? Or will I have no problem playing both and switching back and forth? I'm a guy who knows what he's doing when it comes to electric basses, but I'm new to double basses. If I'm not mistaken, the regular scale length of the strings is 42"? Will this change from a 4/4 to a 3/4?

KSB - Ken Smith · #2 08-28-2005, 04:01 PM

4/4 import size can mean anything. A real 4/4 Bass may be difficult for anyone to play. I have a few large 7/8ths Basses that are bigger than some new basses they call 4/4. I guess they forgot that the next size up from a 3/4 is a 7/8. Many new 3/4 Basses are actually small bodied as well. I have a 3/4 Italian Bass that will not fit a Chinese 4/4 case. My Bass has bigger shoulders than the Bag allows. Sizes are not accurate at all with Basses from today as compared to yesteryear.

Get all the standard dimentions and we can tell you the actual size or close to it. Use the measurements I list. They cover almost everything. Example;
Upper Bout: 20 3/4" *Belly Length: 44 1/4"
Center Bout: 15" *String Length: 42 3/8"
Bottom Bout: 26 7/8" *Overall height? (without end pin)
Rib Depth: 8" (Upper Bout tapers from 8" to 6 1/4")

tbassist4 · #3 08-28-2005, 06:56 PM

well thats not what im asking exactly, i meant, if i switch between a 3/4 and a 4/4 bass will it be any different to play besides body size? Will my fingering spacings all be the same or what? Or if you still need my bass's dimensions to know please post back.

drurb · #4 08-28-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbassist4

well thats not what im asking exactly, i meant, if i switch between a 3/4 and a 4/4 bass will it be any different to play besides body size? Will my fingering spacings all be the same or what? Or if you still need my bass's dimensions to know please post back.

If yours is a "real" 4/4 bass and your school is buying a typical 3/4, then, yes, the string length would be greater on your bass as would the spacing between notes. What Ken is telling you is that the nomenclature is not reliable. What one source calls a 4/4 bass may not have a string length any greater than what another calls a 3/4. That's why Ken asked for the measurements on the two.

Ken also pointed out that a "real" 4/4 is difficult for anyone to play. He is quite correct. I have rather large hands and have played-- rather have TRIED to play-- real 4/4 basses. No way I could ever get very far. This leads me to wonder whether you have a "real" 4/4 and brings us back to Ken's point.

tbassist4 · #5 08-28-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRURB

If yours is a "real" 4/4 bass and your school is buying a typical 3/4, then, yes, the string length would be greater on your bass as would the spacing between notes. What Ken is telling you is that the nomenclature is not reliable. What one source calls a 4/4 bass may not have a string length any greater than what another calls a 3/4. That's why Ken asked for the measurements on the two.

Ken also pointed out that a "real" 4/4 is difficult for anyone to play. He is quite correct. I have rather large hands and have played-- rather have TRIED to play-- real 4/4 basses. No way I could ever get very far. This leads me to wonder whether you have a "real" 4/4 and brings us back to Ken's point.

considering that i bought the instrument online, i assume that its rather a 7/8 or a large 7/8. I need to track down a tape measure...hopefully i'll find one..

KSB - Ken Smith · #6 08-28-2005, 08:24 PM

I have a 7/8 with a 42 3/8" String Length that is easier to reach the upper notes than a 3/4, 41" String length of mine. Besides all the numbers I posted, the shoulders matter as well. I will show 2 examples from my website. You are welcome to view all my Basses and ask questions about playability vs. dimentions as well.

7/8, 42 3/8" ; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...orelliBass.htm

3/4, 41" ; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...GilkesBass.htm

Note the Shoulder Slope on the front of each Bass. The String length matters until you reach the Thumb position. Then the Shoulders and Neck Stand (another MAJOR topic) comes into play.

Here is a 7/8 that plays like an easy 3/4. Note how long the Top and Back are and how far down the Tailpiece is from the Bridge.
Here; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...2/Mystery2.htm

This Bass was just converted into a 5-string. I will post pics asap. I will also edit this post and pic link as well when I update my website and show the new pics instead.

This is another 7/8 that was so huge to play, it was abandoned for almost 100 years. It is getting fully restored and cut down to a playable 7/8 size. I thought this was a 4/4 Bass but my restorer said it's a large 7/8 only. Here; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double..._that_bass.htm

Here is another large 7/8 with high shoulders but for all the right reasons it is extreemly playable. I have to reach a bit to play the harmonics past the Fingerboard in the Dragonetti but I can reach them. Here; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...d/DoddBass.htm

And last but not least, a large 3/4 or small 7/8 Bass that is everyones favorite. Playable, big dimentions but very playable up to the Bridge, a huge dark, deep colorfull Italian tone with robust maturity. This will soon have a Low C extension. Here; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...ini_bass_2.htm

Now, like the old TV show used to say... (so old that only a few of us remember the ORIGINAL Show of the early 60s) "and remember, 'You asked for it'! "

This is not an advertisement. I gave valuable information in my first post/# request BUT, I was questioned. So here, with my Pics, you can see better what I am talking about. I don't need the dimentions of your Bass to size it. It was just to help ID the size and answer your question which cannot be answered without pics and measurements unless I play it myself..THE END......Now, to a commercial and then the late night cartoons......

Paul Warburton · #7 08-31-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbassist4

I need to track down a tape measure...hopefully i'll find one..

That's a tough one man.......have you tried Wal-Mart, Target,
or maybe your neighbor..........?

Johnny L · #8 08-31-2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

I gave valuable information in my first post/# request BUT, I was questioned.

You know Ken this is the second time since I've come back to harass (um, contribute to) all the good folks here that I've seen you end up with some poop on your shoe LOL

That's the problem with poop it doesn't care what shoe you're wearing

It's too bad that basses aren't standardized mensure-and-shoulder-wise. Maybe all the other musicians and instrument makers got jealous when the bass was invented and found ways to make our collective lives more difficult.

Speaking of other instruments, are the other stringed instruments (violin, cello, viola) standardized for mensure and shoulder profile?

KSB - Ken Smith · #9 09-01-2005, 10:01 AM

I guess I have to watch where I walk. You know, I don't get paid to spend time here giving out free information that took most of my life to learn. I do it because I enjoy talking about the Bass.

As far as your question about other instruments go, Violas vary a bit but Violins are usually 14" to the button on the back, +/_ 1/8th inch. This does matter to some degree to each player. Cello are fairly standard as well. I am not sure the dates of each instrument but 100-200 years or so for these sizes. The earlier you go, the more variation you will see. Basses however continue to vary as players ask for different things every day as far as size goes. D-neck is most common and Eb-neck is seen less these days on newer Basses. Also, the exact position of the D varies on each Bass and well as the reach for the F# which also depends on the shoulders of the Bass.

Am I 'stepping' ok now Johnny L.?

Johnny L · #10 09-01-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Am I 'stepping' ok now Johnny L.?

As far as I'm concerned you've always been right in step with the best of them.

I just can't help laughing when I see all this attitude coming from people who (because they don't know ****) think you don't know ****.

But then I don't know **** and might be laughing for the wrong reasons too LOL

KSB - Ken Smith · #11 09-01-2005, 10:23 AM

Ok, I get it. Maybe if you completed your profile with your birthdate, we would know better your age and understanding of such things.. If you're 17, then we know you have years to learn but should mostly listen and ask. If you are 40-50 then you have catching up to do to hang with the older experienced guys and Qs are always welcomed.. Thx for the clarification on the **** thing!!..lol

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #12 09-01-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

If you're 17, then we know you have years to learn but should mostly listen and ask. If you are 40-50 then you have catching up to do to hang with the older experienced guys and Qs are always welcomed.

***?

So Nnick shouldn't post about Lluthiery because he still has all his real teeth?

KSB - Ken Smith · #13 09-01-2005, 11:29 AM

No.... Those are his teeth?.. You're.. ****en me, right? ...lol

Cummon.. u get my meaning I hope.. Many Teens come up here with questions and it's sometime makes a difference how we answer... Too little information for some and they are still puzzled.. Too much and they think we are talking down to them like they were born yesterday...

Rotary phone, Live TV, 10 cent Subway token.. U know.. the things that only the 'relics' remember..I remember when 'hippy' was a new word!!

BTW, today is my birthday and I am now 54 years young !!.. TB sent me an Email to remind me.. Bad news comes in various ways..

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #14 09-01-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

No.... Those are his teeth?.. You're.. ****en me, right? ...lol

Cummon.. u get my meaning I hope.. Many Teens come up here with questions and it's sometime makes a difference how we answer... Too little information for some and they are still puzzled.. Too much and they think we are talking down to them like they were born yesterday...

Rotary phone, Live TV, 10 cent Subway token.. U know.. they things that only the 'relics' remember..I remember when 'hippy' was a new word!!

BTW, today is my birthday and I am now 54 years young !!.. TB sent me an Email to remind me.. Bad news comes in various ways..

Just checking, and happy birthday! For a minute it looked like you were saying that we had an age requirement for posting. Last Saturday was my 41st birthday, BTW...and I already have two gold molars.

BLING......BLING!

christ andronis · #15 09-01-2005, 12:13 PM

happy birthday to you both.....now pass me the prunes....

drurb · #16 09-01-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

BTW, today is my birthday and I am now 54 years young !!..

Well, Happy Birthday! This explains why you said that if you're 40-50 then you still have some catching up to do. Of course, that's just "ageist" crap. I agree about 17 year-olds in the main but c'mon Ken, you can't be serious that in the age-range of, say, 30-80 age is directly proportional to knowledge about the bass.

Experience and training are what count. You're an expert, not because of your age, per se, but because of experience and training. It would be pretty tough to amass those at age 17-- but by, say, age 45 they sure could be.

KSB - Ken Smith · #17 09-01-2005, 01:15 PM

Please re-read my post about the age thing.

If you are 40-50 and asking newbie type questions and playing Bass, then YOU have some catching up to do. If you do not agree, that's ok.. That's MY post of what I think!

BTW, I am no expert but started playing Bass and learning about them 40 years ago. I still have plenty to learn but will never finish.

This is NOT in relation at all to my other comment which refers to replying to ageless questions.

Ike Harris · #18 09-01-2005, 02:35 PM

Happy Birthday, Ken. At least we're even on one count. Now, to win the lottery and do some SERIOUS bass shopping.

Ike

azflyman · #19 09-01-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

BTW, today is my birthday and I am now 54 years young !!.. TB sent me an Email to remind me.. Bad news comes in various ways..

I had my 44th on the 22nd and I received the same dreadful email. I guess it is really a blessing as I thought I would never make it to 30. Happy B-Day Ken!

az

Johnny L · #20 09-01-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Maybe if you completed your profile with your birthdate, we would know better your age and understanding of such things.

Maybe if you were on another forum where I participate I'd say my age was 65 and do my dirty old man routine LOL

Or perhaps another where I'm 17 and looking for a lonely housewife who wants to time travel

Here on this forum I'm just all about the bass, baby, with no age restrictions...

PS Oh yes and happy b-day congrats!!!