Downgrading?

mheintz · #1 01-08-2007, 08:56 AM

I would like to get your opinions on downgrading from a nice carved instrument to a plywood.

If you did it, why did you do it?
Are you happy with your decision?
How did your sell your bass? On commission?
Did you buy the replacement from the same place through which you sold the bass?
Before or after you bought your replacement?

I have a nice, modern carved bass that sounds excellent and plays well. Other than a few split seams, which were repaired, it has held up quite well over the last ~15 years. Then why sell? A few reasons. First, I don't need something this nice and I might be just as happy playing on a lesser bass. I don't play classical music professionally, and I'm now more likely to play jazz or some other amplified context where the incrementally better tone is lost in the mix. Second, despite the good condition and my best efforts, I also worry that steam heat and subway excursions may yet get the better of the bass. Third, it's a lot of value to tie up in one piece of equipment. E.g. I would like to upgrade my bow, which is also nice, but there is always room for improvement. (My wife is also on the hunt for a new piano.)

Then again, I love this bass, and beyond playing well, it has sentimental value.

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

bassame · #2 01-08-2007, 09:38 AM

I was in your position precisely, though I did not keep my carved as long as you did. I found that I was spending a lot of time and energy caring for it and worrying about it, filling tanks of humidifiers through the winters. In my gig situations, no one could distinguish the nuances of tone coming from a carved bass. I sunk a lot of money into it, for gigs that paid nothing. Why did I get it in the first place, you may wonder (as do I). Probably as a sign of my own commitment to the instrument, a sign of my seriousness, maybe a badge or show of my own competence which was completely unnecessary and ridiculous. I sold it for about what I paid, and got a Cleveland, and now I'm happy and carefree!

mheintz · #3 01-08-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassame

now I'm happy and carefree!

Thanks! Ah, to be carefree. I guess part of the reason that I'm now considering downgrading is that basses such as the Cleveland seem much more impressive than their predecessors in the ply-world.

glivanos · #4 01-08-2007, 10:08 AM

Thanks.

BassBot · #5 01-08-2007, 10:54 AM

what other plywood basses--currently being made--have you heard good things about?

mheintz · #6 01-08-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassBot

what other plywood basses--currently being made--have you heard good things about?

Search for La Scala and Cleveland and you'll find loads of information and alternatives. http://www.newstandardbass.com/

At this point, I'm not at the stage where I would sell despite the quality of such basses. For those of you who downgraded, did you downgrade to a lesser carved bass or a plywood/hybrid? Any others like bassame?

Any ex-pros downgrade and regret their decision?

Thanks.

Ed Fuqua · #7 01-08-2007, 11:36 AM

The only reason I thought about doing something like that a few years back was because I had to give the IRS a lot of money, I'm lucky I found another way to make that happen.

I can't conceive of any reason why I would want to give up a bass that I loved playing that didn't involve grave necessity.

mheintz · #8 01-08-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

The only reason I thought about doing something like that a few years back was because I had to give the IRS a lot of money, I'm lucky I found another way to make that happen.

I can't conceive of any reason why I would want to give up a bass that I loved playing that didn't involve grave necessity.

Thanks, Ed. Fortunately, I'm not in the necessity boat.

Sam Sherry · #9 01-08-2007, 01:10 PM

It seems like you might be equivocating a little bit here (or maybe not). You don't play classical so you wonder about the need for a great-sounding bass, but you'd think hard about using some of the proceeds for a better bow. (What, to play the last note of a ballad even better, on a worse-sounding bass?) It seems like you might be thinking out loud, not that there's anything wrong with that. Thinking is good.

For me, it's this: I am on record as being cynical about whether anybody really gets (or cares about) the subtleties of how good my instrument sounds. (Mind, my playing is nothing to brag about -- I'm just talking about the bass.) It matters TO ME. I just LOVE to make that noise. I love to pick up the bass, hang a low G, turn to the fella next to me and say, "Damn, I am lucky to play the bass." I am ready to do what it takes to make myself smile about my sound. 'Cuz let's face it, playing as poorly as I do, that might be the only smile I give myself all night.

Happy hunting, man.

rdwhit · #10 01-08-2007, 01:58 PM

I sold my old carved bass for many of the reasons you listed. I now own a hybrid la scala. The plys are great too, as are both of the clevelands. If You like your carved bass, can You afford one of the new standards without selling it? I play very few orchestra gigs these days, but I'd love to have a nice carved bass w/ a good arco sound simply to keep at home and play for my own enjoyment. I'm currently looking for one.

billyfalconer · #11 01-08-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheintz

Thanks, Ed. Fortunately, I'm not in the necessity boat.

Along those lines, even if you just keep the carved one standing in a corner, you're not losing money on it; a decent carved bass should appreciate over the years.

rdwhit · #12 01-08-2007, 02:18 PM

P.S-- the neck of my old carved bass was a bad fit for my hand. The La Scala happens to feel much better. If my old carved bass had felt as good as my LS I would have kept it.I'm looking for such a bass now, though maybe not one of the same value(10K). The LS remains my trusted gig bass.

mheintz · #13 01-08-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

It seems like you might be equivocating a little bit here (or maybe not). You don't play classical so you wonder about the need for a great-sounding bass, but you'd think hard about using some of the proceeds for a better bow. (What, to play the last note of a ballad even better, on a worse-sounding bass?) It seems like you might be thinking out loud, not that there's anything wrong with that. Thinking is good.

Thanks Sam. Definitely equivocating, and I'm finding your experencies informative. I play classical just not professionally. I also (intonation permitting) use arco for non-classical music (albeit generally amplified).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

I just LOVE to make that noise...

So, I guess I'm in the same boat. Thinking aloud, I'm weighing life's practical expenses (kids, mortgage...) and luxuries (another nice bow) against playing a bass that sounds great. Can I enjoy myself with less? At the moment, I find myself giving more weight to the "don't sell" responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwhit

I sold my old carved bass for many of the reasons you listed. I now own a hybrid la scala. The plys are great too, as are both of the clevelands. If You like your carved bass, can You afford one of the new standards without selling it? I play very few orchestra gigs these days, but I'd love to have a nice carved bass w/ a good arco sound simply to keep at home and play for my own enjoyment. I'm currently looking for one.

Thanks rdwhit. I should have anticipated this response: the sweet siren song of Talkbass telling me to buy both.

It's interesting that you are now looking for a carved bass again. I would feel pretty silly if down the road I ended up longing to replace this bass. Practically, my conscience (read my wife) will let me keep it, but it would be hard to buy another one of this quality again.

Anyone else sell and regret it?

bassist1962 · #14 01-08-2007, 05:33 PM

I find myself in this same situation. My bass is an inheritance from my brother in law who hasn't played since 1968. It is in need of repair. I found out that it is a fully carved shop instrument, which means it is probably worth more in sentiment (this is the instrument I learned to play on in 1977) than actual dollars. I was thinking the same thing. Sell this and buy a decent ply in good repair. Talking to a few family members helped me decide not to do this. It is about 50 years old, the wood has had time to dry and shrink, and It sounds good. If I bought a new instrument I would probably be in the same boat I am now in a couple of years with it needing repaired, and the wood is still settling. I was convinced to keep mine unless (as Ed said) grave nessecity happens.

conte2music · #15 01-08-2007, 08:46 PM

I bent over backwards to reaquire my 1941 kay bass because I missed it so much, but it has done a lot of sitting since. Were it my only bass I would use it daily, but I have two old carved basses that I most always choose ahead of it. The kay is wonderful for what it is, however it has limitations. If you can find a way to get the new standard without selling your carved do it.

Life's too short to not play on the very best instrument you possibly can get your hands on, and it seems like you already have.

That being said if you want a good kay with looong sustain at a good price... send me a message

haha

Best of luck,
Chris

mheintz · #16 01-09-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist1962

I was convinced to keep mine unless (as Ed said) grave nessecity happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by conte2music

Life's too short to not play on the very best instrument you possibly can get your hands on, and it seems like you already have.

Thanks. I have been swayed to keep the bass. I suppose that seeking advice from Talkbass was a subconcious desire to keep it. Bassame's advice may still be the voice of reason, but I'll repress it for the moment.

bassame · #17 01-09-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheintz

Thanks. I have been swayed to keep the bass. I suppose that seeking advice from Talkbass was a subconcious desire to keep it. Bassame's advice may still be the voice of reason, but I'll repress it for the moment.

If reason were determinative in the life of a musician, we'd all be accountants.

Ben Rolston · #18 01-09-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheintz

First, I don't need something this nice and I might be just as happy playing on a lesser bass.

Then again, I love this bass, and beyond playing well, it has sentimental value.

I think that these two pieces are the most important to this question. I don't personally think that it is possible for you to be happier playing on a lesser bass. If there is a lesser bass, I would assume it's "lesser" because you would't like it as much. If you have to choose between two instruments you should always (money aside) go with the one which inspires you more-which would be the one you like. If "lesser" in this case purely means price then thats a different matter which only you can really know about.

The other part is that you say you "love this bass." I bet that if you get a instrument which you love to a lesser degree you'll find yourself wanting to play less, and be less creative when playing.

My suggestion would be to keep the bass and not look to intensively for another. If on the other hand something pops up which moves you more than you're current bass (even if its cheaper) then by all means hop on it.

This being said, this is all my opinion and is not really based on anything other than my own limited experience. Also I have a ply Cleveland and love it to death (you should absolutely check them out if its convienent).

Ben

EDIT: My bad, I just saw the post saying that you had decided to keep it. Good Choice!

CamMcIntyre · #19 01-09-2007, 03:10 PM

I'd keep it....if you want another bass that you wouldn't have to worry as much about-i agree with the New Standard comments. Granted, my NS Cleveland [ply] is the only bass i've ever owned, but i got the feeling that i'll be playing it for the better part of my lifetime. Yeah, i want to buy a nice carved bass, but this keeps on sounding better and better as my technique and well-my general concept of tone developes. It's like, as i learn how to draw the sound out of the bass-it responds quite nicely to whatever it is that i'm doing.

Take it easy.

B. Graham · #20 01-09-2007, 06:06 PM

The carved bass I used to have was nothing special, on paper. It was and is quite special though in that it sounds far better than most would think bassed on what it is, again, on paper. I had to sell it. Small kids to feed, shelter to provide, and legacy financial issues from the dot-bomb era that were too slow to go away.

I am not happy with the replacement. I'm also not miserable. I could not afford to replace the carved bass with a NS or with an Upton. How I am happy with what happened is in the area of having done what I needed to do for my family, and addressing a greater need. I used to play professionally, recorded a couple of records, etc. but now I don't have that kind of life, so the decision wasn't that tough. One significant consulation is that the carved bass is being played right now by a kid with a lot of talent, great potential, and very supportive parents. I kind of saw the particular buyer appearing when they did as providence. If I couldn't keep it, it couldn't have gone to a better buyer.

I did worry a lot about climate issues with the carved bass, and also about little rug rats taking a whack at it with a plastic light saber. Not too worried about that anymore.

Anyway, you've got plenty of feedback, and I'm sure we all wish you the best with your decision.