Eglehardt question Redux

solderjunkie · #1 01-27-2008, 06:42 AM

I played a lightly used Engelhardt Blonde Swingmaster that is for sale locally.

I had a 1953 Blonde Kay (in much worse condition, of course) which was sold to make rent a few years ago.

This Engelhardt feels the same, but sounds a little thinner. It has been setup and the action is beautiful, and it looks like the strings have been replaced with some very nice flats. It has a little endpin rattle to fix, but that is no big deal.

Now that we established a little background... on to the question:

Is this the same level of quality as my old Kay??? will it age as gracefully, or is it typical of most newer instruments and will turn to crap as it ages?

I know Engelhardt bought Kay's facility and tooling, but are they really making the same bass???

BTW... I now have a gig playing with an Irish Blues Punk Rocker band now, so there will be no bowing

solderjunkie · #2 01-27-2008, 08:44 PM

No love for plywood???

What a tough crowd

MingusAmongUs · #3 01-27-2008, 08:54 PM

I'm sure the usual suspects will chime in here eventually but maybe it's because Engelhardt is a young(er) company, it doesn't have quite the same "mojo" as Kay... but like any bass, they probably differ vastly from year to year and model to model. Some diamonds and some lemons too. Generally they're seen as decent entry-level or road warrior basses. Good value for the price. If you look after it (and if it's not a lemon) it should last plenty long. The "thinner" sound could be a symptom of its youth, or its strings, or a poor soundpost placement, or about 300 other things. Some folks say the neck is too thin and promotes poor left hand technique. I have no opinion on the matter.

Steve Swan · #4 01-27-2008, 09:27 PM

I'm no big fan of Kays, only about 10% of them that I play would ever end up in my house as a 2nd bass. Engelhardts are a different story. I have only played one Engelhardt, an example from 1970, that I would ever even consider as a summer festival-only bass. The rest have been heavy, stiff, thin-sounding "instruments" with difficult-to-play pencil necks. Blechh!!!

Engelhardt fans, fire away. My skin is very thick!

ZachDad · #5 01-27-2008, 10:42 PM

+1 on Mingus' post! It really depends on which one you get.
Odds are a swingmaster would be a decent to good entry level bass. I have an M-1 that after a lot of tweaking I like very much. I must admit in hindsight, I would probably go a different way...maybe a New Standard for not a whole lot more considering proper set up etc.

RHayton · #6 02-02-2008, 11:22 PM

Bought my first bass about 18 months ago, an Engelhardt M-1, gave $1100 for it, then immediately spent about $500 on set up, new strings, new bridge. I also had the sprayed-on shellac sanded off of the neck and had it treated with linseed oil, then replaced the coat hanger tail piece with cable. It is now a decent sounding base, fairly easy to play, and I play it at about two hours a day and gig about 2-3 times a month.

Having said that, I plan in about six months or a year to replace it with a better bass, either a new hybrid, or a used carved, because I want the ebony fingerboard and the increased resonance. I'll then sell the Engelhardt knowing I won't get back what I have in it.

Looking back, for only about another $1000 I could have gotten an Upton Hybrid or a Shen that I may have considered my last bass as well as first.

wendell · #7 02-03-2008, 11:19 AM

Since you're in Nashville, if you haven't already checked out Dustin Williams shop, I would do so. He has a fine reputation based on people posting here. I believe he also is a Shen dealer and might have other good basses in the ply category. The Shen sb80 can be had for around $1400, including upgrades and setup work --not sure what DW charges for his.

Gearhead43 · #8 02-04-2008, 12:51 AM

Solderjunkie,

80% of the guys on talkbass are classical music only, silver spoon, elitist snobs who can't even be nice to each other, as you can see from some above posts.

You might want to ask your question about the Swingmaster in the rockabilly, or bluegrass forum - or become a member over at rockabillybass.com. This forum was no help to me whatsoever as a doublebass newbie, and I am surprised that they don't charge people to become members and do social status checks first.

Goodbye.

Jason Sypher · #9 02-04-2008, 07:17 AM

Well, what do you say about that? It's really not true, 80% are not classical guys at all. The silver spoon reference is silly because the truth is, if you're a classical player in an orchestra you have worked your ass off in a very competitive business and don't make a lot of money for the effort. I bet there are less than 5% on this forum that are playing in an orchestra. And furthermore, what could be less 'elitist' than playing classical music? True, there can be some ridiculous arguments etc but that's just the way it is when you get a diverse group of people from different backgrounds on the web together. When you see a thread get sidetracked just get back on subject and it usually rights itself. I don't think anyone here has a problem with plywood basses etc. In fact, many players with expensive carved basses have a working ply at home as well. They serve an important purpose and can even have a more appropriate sound for certain situations. A lot of newbies and/or ply guys seem to be intimidated by the forum but it's more in your head than reality. You should definitely subscribe to other forums so as to get perspective and insight. I think the general rule on all basses is 'you get what you pay for'. Engelharts are cheap for a reason. You may find a nice one, I certainly have over the years, but they are not generally regarded as a great instrument. That said, they will get the job done and a lot has to do with your ears and the sound that you are trying to get.

Cathead · #10 02-05-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

A lot of newbies and/or ply guys seem to be intimidated by the forum but it's more in your head than reality.

I don't think it's in my head. It's been posted that I should use my bass for a boat to fish from and then chop it up for firewood to cook the fish. I don't see where that is a very tactful way to discuss the quality of a newbie's bass who is looking for a little encouragement. I have been snubbed because I don't have access to a teacher among other things. I would never do someone that way. It didn't take me long to become mostly a lurker over here. I have noticed a lot of helpful folks on this forum, and that's why I hang around. But I don't say a lot here because I usually get "shot down" when I open my "mouth" by the ones who are not so nice.

Steve Swan · #11 02-05-2008, 08:30 AM

I attended a concert by a couple of national level Bluegrass groups last night, Spring Creek from Lyons, CO and Town Mountain from NC. The difference in bass stage sound between an Engelhardt and a dencent bass couldn't have been more apparent. Poor Jessica Smith of Spring Creek was beating herself to death on a refinished Engelhardt that had all of the resonance of a kitchen tabletop. Barret ______ of Town Mountain sounded great on a borrowed Romanian flatback bass that he used on this tour. Barret was able to easily hold down the bottom end and play with some tonal and dynamic variation that would have been impossible if he had been using Jessica's heavy, dead-sounding bass.

Nohandles · #12 02-05-2008, 01:25 PM

I have built and played stringed instrument for over 30 years. I have a Swingmaster that is just a little over 4 years old. I have to say it has gotten better with each year I have owned it. So like one of the other posters said if its not a lemon then is should improve. Wood has its own properties and with each piece from even the same tree gives no guarantee of uniform sound quality. Every instrument I have ever built or played had its own merits so comparing one to another is hard to do and I think we all feel strongly toward the sound we like. So the answer is time and our perception of the sound of the instrument. But I do have to agree that some are crap no matter what you do to them.

ctcruiser · #13 02-05-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gufenov

Gosh, what a great topic for a thread! What do you folks think?

I must say I think I found a good Engelhardt with my ES-1 that I bought a few years ago. Compared to other Engelhardt's that I find in the local shop, it does sound better, so I guess I was a lucky one.

From what I have read and heard, the later Engelhardts are an improved lot. I think they are reliable and it is good to know that in a pinch I can use it as a surfboard and still play the gig afterwards (lol).

I plan to keep mine for awhile even though I am in the process of buying a Christopher hybrid that came across my way (it's a lefty and they are hard to find).

My boss at work is letting me take over an empty office as a practice room for my ES-1. That way, I can get my practice in every day and not drive my dear wife crazy with my boom-boom-boom at home every night. I can have my new Chrissy at home for the weekend practices and possible gigs.

ZachDad · #14 02-05-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctcruiser

My boss at work is letting me take over an empty office as a practice room for my ES-1. That way, I can get my practice in every day and not drive my dear wife crazy with my boom-boom-boom at home every night. I can have my new Chrissy at home for the weekend practices and possible gigs.

Who is this boss and is he hiring?!

bassplayer2 · #15 02-07-2008, 09:03 AM

Just thought I share my two-cents on Englehardts. When I got back into playing double bass I bought a Chinese bass on Ebay just to see if I would like doing it again. I did what I could to that bass to make it sound better but it was obvious that I needed to move on. I then bought an EM-1 and again I did what I could to make it sound better but as I progressed as a bass player it became obvious again that I needed to move on. Both basses served their purpose for where I was. Because I primarily play in community orchestras I needed something that bowed decent. Strings, bridges, tail wire, soundposts all improved the sound in both cases.

But lets face it, we are always looking for that perfect sound, trying to be the best that we can.

Next, I bought a Roma Hybrid and had it set-up nicely for arco. It is a great sounding bass and actually does very well for Bluegrass which I have an opportunity to play occasionally. ( Classical bassists do play other styles of music.)

But I still wanted to know what a fully carved bass would sound like, so I bought an used one from a person on this forum. I had it set up for arco and have played around with different strings and it sounds good.

You might see where this is going- I will probably buy another bass in the future- always looking for that perfect sound.

do I regret buying the EM1- not at all. It took me to the next level and I enjoyed having it. Again, my two-cents worth.

drurb · #16 02-07-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassplayer2

...do I regret buying the EM1- not at all. It took me to the next level and I enjoyed having it. Again, my two-cents worth.

Thanks for sharing an important perspective. Many of us have a history of moving up through better and better instruments. With collective hindsight and experience, what is often assessed, and what has been discussed in this thread is whether, given a certain budget, an Engel provides the best bang for the buck. So, if you're at a certain stage in your progression and have a certain amount of $$$ to spend, it seems one would want to get the best bass possible for that money. The OP was considering an Engel purchase. Part of what makes these forums interesting are the differing opinions. Obviously Steve Swan is of the opinion that for what an Engel costs, one can do substantially better. That's an opinion I share. Obviously, others disagree.

damonsmith · #17 02-07-2008, 04:03 PM

I always think this brand concept is a carry over from bass guitar. You should go around and try basses until you find the right one.
Except in very rare cases Plywoods are mainly a waste of time, and the good ones are priced the same as a cheap carved bass. I have never heard an Englehardt worth bothering with.
The main point is they all sound different even the same models by the same maker.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #18 02-07-2008, 06:38 PM

This thread has been copied from the older version so as to remain on topic. Please refrain from bickering and accusations here, so that we as a bass community may better serve the gentleman who started the thread. Thank you.

solderjunkie · #19 02-12-2008, 07:16 PM

I read the responses and bickering in the other thread, and just now decided to answer... you guys really take yourselves way too seriously. It's just music for God's sake.

I put the Engel on layaway and I'm ordering some pickups from Gollihur's.

I'll send you a copy of our next disc and you can decide if the tone is up to your standards.

Gearhead43 · #20 02-12-2008, 10:11 PM

I was going to leave and never come or even read this forum anymore, but I think my post was a little overboard. Thanks to the moderator and sorry about that one.

I also apologize to the non-snobs on here. Solderjunkie, I hope you are pleased with your Engel. Be sure to get it set-up by a competent bass luthier, you'll be glad you did. Be sure to swing by the rockabillybass dot com forum also if you have questions about your bass.