Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Double Bass Forums > Basses [DB]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Basses [DB] Discussion on the instrument: double bass, string bass, contrabass, bass viol, acoustic bass, upright bass, standup bass, bass fiddle, bass violin, doghouse bass, bull fiddle... :)


Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-27-2006, 04:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
"Elite Instrument" Price Trends?

Some people I know who have dealt extensively as professional dealers in elite basses have expressed the opinion in the past year or two that the market for "top-end" instruments has cooled off considerably.

Do you believe that to be true?

If it were true, one would normally expect that the effect of supply and demand would cause the prices at which these instruments could be purchased to fall -- at least compared to what they were a few years ago.

Does anyone see any evidence that such a price decline has been happening? I'm not talking necessarily about asking prices for instruments, but rather the prices at which they are actually selling.
Sign in to disble this ad
  #2  
Old 11-27-2006, 06:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stuart,Florida
Send a message via AIM to Sippy
Not so much with basses. But I work with a guy who plays guitar and LOVES PRS guitars. Ironically he was just saying today how GC is selling used banged up PRS for 3k-4k... that he gets on ebay in MINT condition for just under 2k. Personally. I think a lot of the "smaller" companies are have a lot more technology at their disposal. Equipment that was expensive 10 years ago is now affordable from a business standpoint. I work in a Reverse Engineering environment every day so I see it all the time. For instance: I took my 1973 P-bass. And actually made a digital model of it that is accurate up to .005 of an inch. We have vendors that can take that digital model and blueprints that I draw up and make the bass with a .009 tolerance. Therefore the bass will be EXACTLY like the '73. (except for the dried wood and mojo it brings . Before that technology would be over $2 million. Our equipment cost us $750,000. They can engineer and R/E anything they want now. And not have to pay and charge for all that overhead. Therefore, to finally close my point. Less expensive instruments are now better quality then they were 10 years ago.
__________________
Michael Holden's Bass Blog
  #3  
Old 11-27-2006, 06:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
I'm talking about the type of Italian or English double basses that a pro would play in a Big Five symphony orchestra. No amount of CAD-CAM can reproduce that type of quality.
  #4  
Old 11-28-2006, 11:04 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Different topics sort of, but Ken and Sippy make some very good points. It is a lot less expensive in hourly wage dollars to get a good serviceable musical instrument these days than it was in 1975 (By the way my P is also a 1973, how's that!) and better technology is certainly to thank for that. Considering what my P appraised for recently though, I also must agree with Ken. Invest in musical instruments. Even mid grade ones and factory Fenders go up in price with age. The stock market is less consistent. When you get into the top level instruments it is quite the case that these almost never sell for less than the last price they sold for, unless there has been some severe damage.

A friend of mine who plays sax recently told me he wished he'd put what he had in the stock market into saxophones instead. He says he's never lost money trading up in the saxophone market. This was what led me to the Jens Ritter basses. I'm not some super player but I wanted to put the money into something that would count later on. So it had to be a Jens Ritter, or a Ken Smith (the Black Tiger was a front runner, but alas, it had frets...), or a Fodera. Lesser basses would have also improved in value greatly over time. But these truly fine makers (and I know I have left out some very deserving names for the sake of brevity) are the ones that will be in the professionals' and collectors' hands in the next generation. Truly there is just no substitute for fine hand craftsmanship no matter how good the CAD gets. And as the craftmen become fewer, the prices will only go up. The problem with CAD is eventually that while it can measure fine differences in pieces of wood, it can't hear them and make a human judgement call. I know the examples I give are for EBG's but the same is true for the Pollmanns and even the Wilfers, new or old. An interesting test case will be the "Bromberg" models from Lemur, but even these benefit from both high technology and from hand craftsmanship.

I certainly know nothing of the fine vintage DB market like Ken does, but regardless of what you buy and what it might resell for, consider;-

Some other advantages to "investing" in a DB that might get this post deleted!: You can "depreciate" your tools of the trade all the while these are actually increasing in value. It is like a circular saw, but then again it is not like a circular saw. A piece of "personal property" enlisted in a business use can be "depreciated" until it essentially has lost it's entire original value. It can then be "removed" from business use (and replaced with a newer (new to you anyway) and more full featured tool), and is of course now worth nothing. At which point you can just continue to hold it for another 7 years and ... Well the conclusion is obvious for the tax code savy. Even if you actually lose money on it on paper, you lose less than on the worn out circular saw which was also a good investment and a tool of a different trade.

Also when you invest in craftsmanship, in the long term you mitigate the kinds of economic fluctuations that are due to changing exchange rates, currency values, recession, etc. I'm not saying this market is immune, just more resistant. It's like art. It is stable international currency. Instruments that are tools of the trade are not consumerist items. These are not grown men's toys either. These are smart $$ investments that we use to make all or a portion of our livlihood.

And I'm totally with Ken on this matter. I stick to cameras, downtown real estate, and musical instruments that I know. These, I know well enough that I probably will not lose. I can't guess which way the stocks will go so well. I did make a good call on Apple Computer a few years ago, but I didn't put enough in to make a windfall. But now that I have the Macbook, I wish I had just gotten an Apple computer then instead of the stock. The 2 for 1 split was quite nice, though.
__________________
Silversorcerer
There are no secrets, just ignorance or knowledge- Anonymous
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:50 PM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.