Engelhardt ES9 verses EM1

[CetiAlphaVI]

I have read the noobie links as well as performed searches, but I have yet to figure out the answer. Am I going to notice a significant difference between these 2 basses or can a few bucks be saved? Is the ES1 better sounding than either of these models?

Also, I keep hearing about endpin replacement. Having several acoustic guitars and a mandolin, I know what an endpin is. What's the big deal with that? I'm pretty well sold on the Engelhardts. The question is which one. Is there a real difference?

[Jeff Guevin]

Originally Posted by CetiAlphaVI

I have read the noobie links as well as performed searches, but I have yet to figure out the answer. Am I going to notice a significant difference between these 2 basses or can a few bucks be saved? Is the ES1 better sounding than either of these models?

CetiAlphaVI, I won't be the one to answer your Engelhardt question, but I know a couple of general questions that might help others provide focused advice. For one, what kind of music are you wanting to play? Have you ever played double bass before? Do you live somewhere where you can get to a bass shop, or at least a string store that has some basses? Generally I think it's a mistake to order a bass without hearing it/playing it unless you have no other choice--and one might argue that's even more the case if it's your first bass. Did you settle on the Engelhardt just based on what you've read?

Originally Posted by CetiAlphaVI

Also, I keep hearing about endpin replacement. Having several acoustic guitars and a mandolin, I know what an endpin is. What's the big deal with that? I'm pretty well sold on the Engelhardts. The question is which one. Is there a real difference?

This confuses me--what do guitar and mandolin have to do with endpins? It might not be what you think it is, or perhaps guitars and mandolins have features I'm not aware of.

[bassist14]

CetiAlphaVI:
Also, I keep hearing about endpin replacement. Having several acoustic guitars and a mandolin, I know what an endpin is. What's the big deal with that?

jguevin:
This confuses me--what do guitar and mandolin have to do with endpins? It might not be what you think it is, or perhaps guitars and mandolins have features I'm not aware of.

pic 1: bass endpin
pic 2 guitar endpin
two different things, ok?

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by CetiAlphaVI

Am I going to notice a significant difference between these 2 basses or can a few bucks be saved? Is the ES1 better sounding than either of these models?

What About Bob? Bob Gollihur, that is. Go ask him ..... he'll give you a straight answer: http://www.gollihur.com/kkbass/engelhardt.html

I realize that you probably don't play bluegrass but a number of folks at BlueGrass Bass Place own Englehardts. Post your question there:
http://www.bluegrassbassplace.com/ph...e1e6295f8c1e1e

Could also post the question at RockaBilly Bass. Some of those lovable thumper / slappers run Englehardts:
http://rockabillybass.com/phpBB/view...59f67697e6a9e5

Good Luck and Have Fun!

P.S. Hey "CetiAlphaVI", didn't I see you on an old episode of Star Trek with Capt. James T. Kirk? Sorry, I'm just pushin' yer leg! I see from your profile that you are in the midwest. Why don't you take a trip to Chi-Town and visit the Englehardt-Link factory? You might be able to play some basses, get the lowdown from the makers, and maybe even buy an off-spec bass for less moohla. Just a thought ...... not necessarily a good one though!

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Bob Knebel

P.S. Hey "CetiAlphaVI", didn't I see you on an old episode of Star Trek with Capt. James T. Kirk? Sorry, I'm just pushin' yer leg! I see from your profile that you are in the midwest. Why don't you take a trip to Chi-Town and visit the Englehardt-Link factory? You might be able to play some basses, get the lowdown from the makers, and maybe even buy an off-spec bass for less moohla. Just a thought ...... not necessarily a good one though!

Oh, I wouldn't joke with this guy! Have you seen his picture?

[bass4daddy]

The differences are cosmetic. The swing master has niftier veneers and finishes and ebony nut, fb, & tailpiece. Brand new = needs set up.

[armybass]

I have had both and I think the ES1 is worth the price difference. The ebony fingerboard and nicer veneer are worth the price difference alone. They will both need an adjustable bridge, new endpin, new tail wire, new strings and a good setup. Regardless of what you might here on this site, they are very playable and dependable basses for the money. Other players might prefer other basses for certain reasons but I have gigged many a jobs on my ES1 and it has more than paid for itself and any upgrades I have done to it several times over.

[CetiAlphaVI]

To the guys, who recognized what CetiAlphaVI was . . . . .Yours is the superior intellect.

Now on to the real stuff.

Thanks for the info in this thread. I actually feel like I'm getting somewhere! I'm gonna probably get it on-line. Nobody local is making me want to run to the Justice of the Peace. Cremonas and other crap will do that to you. I have no problem working on my electrics basses and acoustic guitars, so some of the setup that is elementary, I won't have a problem doing. (Not major stuff, but filing nuts, installing pickups, etc.)

I had already been to Gollihur's site, since I see he posts here. The Engelhardt page still doesn't say anything about sound quality. I realize the Swingmaster and the Supreme use "prettier" wood veneers and ebony fingerboards (a little snappier sound probably), but aside from looks, is there a quality difference? Is there a big/noticeable sound projection difference?

Why do I see that they need a new endpin? Doesn't it come with one? Is it not adjustable? Other than pretty, why should I buy a swingmaster, when I can get an EM1 in blonde? Also, is there a big deal between Gamba and Violin style? I tried searching for a difference, and all I find is "Bass model . . .gamba body". What is Gamba? Is it big or a no no?

This will be used in a rock band primarily, hinting at some folk and rockabilly. I do have friends in a bluegrass band, so even though it's not my favorite genre (OK, even that's a stretch), I may find myself filling in there, maybe in a jam at a festival or possibly an open mic. I will also be doing some country rock with it. Definitely no jazz. Maybe Arco a little ways down the road, but more as an effect for a song or 2, not even 10% of the time. So no, I won't have to worry about sitting in with the symphony either.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by drurb

Oh, I wouldn't joke with this guy! Have you seen his picture?

Holy Sh#>?*t!

I'm changing my profile. Actually everyone, I live in Muddy Gap, Wyoming. You know ..... the home of the biggest di-lithium mine in the Milky Way system. Here's a picture of my bestest pal ..... daytime - he works in the mine ....... nite - he's a mean e-bass player in a local CW band!

P.S. Sorry to be such a smart-a%&s. Actually I've heard a number of E-Ls and they sound pretty good for an American-made plywood bass. I play a plywood bass and am real happy with the sound I get for now as a rookie. Eventually I will probably end up with a "plywood" New Standard Cleveland. I think the new E-L G (Gamba) models may even be made in the same jig as my 1940 Kay O-1 since E-L bought up the manufacturing facilities from Kay. I think they are a way better starter upright bass than any e-bay type of CCB or BSO. Get one and have fun .... they will sound better with a good set-up, good strings, and with age.

[Steve Killingsworth]

You may discover there are several Trekkies here who are well acquinted with the Botany Bay's crew.

To get back to the question, I owned a ES-9 for several years. It was a powerful instrument for bluegrass and, to my ear, was the best sounding E'hardt I ever heard. However, I believe much of that was due to a professional setup, good string choice (Obligatos) and upgrades (bridge, tailpiece cable).

I believe setup and your technique will play a bigger role in the sound than the model. I believe the primary difference is finish and the ES9 uses more cosmetically attractive wood.

[mesmithnm]

There are few TB'rs around here who've replaced the original rosewood fingerboards on their Kays with ebony and I think the general consensus is that the change is more than cosmetic. Since an Englehardt is essentially a new Kay, it could be worth considering the higher priced model for that reason.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by mesmithnm

There are few TB'rs around here who've replaced the original rosewood fingerboards on their Kays with ebony and I think the general consensus is that the change is more than cosmetic. Since an Englehardt is essentially a new Kay, it could be worth considering the higher priced model for that reason.

+1

[ctcruiser]

Originally Posted by CetiAlphaVI

Why do I see that they need a new endpin? Doesn't it come with one? Is it not adjustable?

I have an ES-1 model that sounds great. I did replace the endpin due to rattling and vibrations.

I also added an adjustable bridge and had the ebony fingerboard smoothed out (there were some dead spots).

[Bob Gollihur]

Originally Posted by CetiAlphaVI

To the guys, who recognized what CetiAlphaVI was . . . . .Yours is the superior intellect.

Now on to the real stuff.

Thanks for the info in this thread. I actually feel like I'm getting somewhere! I'm gonna probably get it on-line. Nobody local is making me want to run to the Justice of the Peace. Cremonas and other crap will do that to you. I have no problem working on my electrics basses and acoustic guitars, so some of the setup that is elementary, I won't have a problem doing. (Not major stuff, but filing nuts, installing pickups, etc.)

I had already been to Gollihur's site, since I see he posts here. The Engelhardt page still doesn't say anything about sound quality. I realize the Swingmaster and the Supreme use "prettier" wood veneers and ebony fingerboards (a little snappier sound probably), but aside from looks, is there a quality difference? Is there a big/noticeable sound projection difference?

Why do I see that they need a new endpin? Doesn't it come with one? Is it not adjustable? Other than pretty, why should I buy a swingmaster, when I can get an EM1 in blonde? Also, is there a big deal between Gamba and Violin style? I tried searching for a difference, and all I find is "Bass model . . .gamba body". What is Gamba? Is it big or a no no?

This will be used in a rock band primarily, hinting at some folk and rockabilly. I do have friends in a bluegrass band, so even though it's not my favorite genre (OK, even that's a stretch), I may find myself filling in there, maybe in a jam at a festival or possibly an open mic. I will also be doing some country rock with it. Definitely no jazz. Maybe Arco a little ways down the road, but more as an effect for a song or 2, not even 10% of the time. So no, I won't have to worry about sitting in with the symphony either.

I usually recommend the EM1 when budget is a consideration, you do get more bang for the buck - however, if you intend to keep it and can stretch, the extra few dollars for the ES1 (or ES9) can be worthwhile for the improvement in "pretty" as well as the durability and potential sound differences of the ebony board and tailpiece.

The endpin rant is over the fact that it can rattle if it is not screwed down tight enough and/or too much endpin is inside the bass-- they can oscillate and drive you nuts. I just replaced the set screw of my old Kay with a plastic knob/bolt that I got at a hardware store, giving me more torque to tighten it and have never had a problem since.

That said, when Engelhardt begins building the Gollihur custom gamba style Engelhardts for me, they will have a "conventional" endpin. We just have to finalize my custom color spec.

[CetiAlphaVI]

Thanks a bunch for the info, everyone. Except that my cash outlay seems to keep going up, which may put a damper on certain things, I've received a lot of answers!

[CetiAlphaVI]

One more question . . . .What is the soundpost?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by CetiAlphaVI

One more question . . . .What is the soundpost?

The soundpost is a cylindrical piece of wood (a dowl) set in place between the top and back of the bass. It is usually located just south of the G-string-side foot of the bridge. Acoustically, it creates a nodal point of vibration on the top. It's precise position and "tightness" of fit can affect substantially the sound of the instrument. It MUST be in place before the strings are brought to tension as it provides structural support for the top.

You can find all sorts of details here on TB regarding the diameter of the post, it's suggested positioning, how its grain is oriented with respect to the top, etc.

I hope the luthiers here will approve of my brief answer.

[Nohandles]

I got my ES9 Swingmaster about 4 years from Bob G and I am very happy with it. It has a killer boom and bows great. I have however replace the end solid wire with aircraft cable added an adjustable bridge and lowered the strings at the nut to .005 off the finger board. In the begining Bob warned me the end pin might be a problem and to tighten it down so I aways torque it down. I am 6' 1" so the pin is out rather far.
I still use the Labella RC 610 rope core strings that it came with. I tried all kinds but they gave me the best results and the most volume especially in the middle of a corn field. Even amped they are great. My friend has an ES1 I set it up identically to mine and other than color it is great although mine has a lot more back bone but I do use it 1 to 2 hours a day. I wouldn't be afraid of an Engelhardt at all. Remember they are new and need to be played for a long time to get the maximum sound out of them. Like any instrument.

[Eli_Upright12]

Where are you in the midwest?

[Nohandles]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

Where are you in the midwest?

I live in Ohio about 20 miles West of Cleveland.