Ernst Heinrich Roth Basses

[Silly_Bassist]

Hi,

Did Ernst Heinrich Roth only make 3/4 basses?

I'm a bass player in the unfortunate position of having hands too small to comfortably play a 3/4.

I've played a few Roth basses (before I discovered my hands were too small), each aged about 40 or so years, and I've decided I want this particular maker.

I haven't found much while surfing around, but I'd like to know more before I become too determined to consider other options.

[Eric Hochberg]

In what way are your hands too small? Did you measure the string length between the nut and bridge on the basses you tried? That can vary by quite a bit from bass to bass. It is also possible to shorten the string length and reshape a too chunky neck, which may help you. There are 3/4 basses with string lengths from 40"-43", so you should measure each bass you are interested in to find out what its specs are. Go try a bass with a shorter SL to see if that helps.

Just learned on another thread that Mingus' lion head bass is a EH Roth.

[Silly_Bassist]

My fingers can't comfortably reach the notes on a 3/4. The way I have to stretch puts a lot of strain on the muscles in my hand. I've always had cramps in my left hand after playing too long, but I never thought they were related to how I stretched my fingers to play until my teacher asked me about it.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by Silly_Bassist

My fingers can't comfortably reach the notes on a 3/4. The way I have to stretch puts a lot of strain on the muscles in my hand. I've always had cramps in my left hand after playing too long, but I never thought they were related to how I stretched my fingers to play until my teacher asked me about it.

I hate to ask such a silly question, but are you trying to carry over a four finger/four note method from bass guitar to the double bass?

[Silly_Bassist]

Nope.

I started on the double bass from viola. And I retained habits from the viola.

No... my hands are honestly too small to reach a whole step on a 3/4.

I never noticed it before. I had just made the switch and was prepared for difficulties, so I never thought that the strain was anything unusual. By the time I noticed I had to shake out the cramps on my left hand more often than not, I was in love with the bass and nothing would have changed my mind.

[Bass Barrister]

Eric has given you very good advice. Check your string length. DB srting lengths can vary greatly. I play a 3/4 size DB with a 41" string length with no problems but would probably not enjoy a 43" or higher length.

Also, check your technique. I trust you are working with a DOUBLE BASS teacher who can demonstrate and monitor correct technique.

A 5/8ths size bass could give you a SL of 38-40" but will most likely involve some compromise in porojection and tone, although some of these can be quite decent players.

As to your original question about smalleer DBs, I don't know whether Ernst Heinrich Roth (1877-1948) built any. There may have been some made by the Roth enterprise and sold here by the old Scherl & Roth Company (pre Conn-Selmer). The current S&R/Glasesel (Conn-Selmer subsidiary) offers some DBs, including smaller sizes, but their parentage is questionable.

[Silly_Bassist]

I see quite a few of the current Roth basses. I have to admit that I'm not too impressed with them.

At the moment I'm not taking lessons, but I do see my former teacher every day, so I do get comments on my technique and plenty of demonstration.

I'm working with a 1/2 right now and the difference in size allows me to play with better technique and almost no cramping in my left hand. But I miss the size of a 3/4.

I'll certainly check out string lengths. At this point, I'm almost willing to do anything to be able to continue playing a 3/4.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Silly_Bassist

I'm working with a 1/2 right now and the difference in size allows me to play with better technique and almost no cramping in my left hand. But I miss the size of a 3/4.

I'll certainly check out string lengths. At this point, I'm almost willing to do anything to be able to continue playing a 3/4.

What is the SL of the 1/2 size you are playing now? Take one of the Roth basses you like to a good bass luthier and ask about shortening the SL. If you have the budget, I'm sure one of the good makers could design a bass for you.

[Ken McKay]

Note 41.5 inch Note 38.0 inch
Decimal Inches Decimal Inches
G 0 0 G 0 0
G#/Ab 2.3292 2 11/32 G#/Ab 2.1328 2 9/64
A 2.1985 2 13/64 A 2.0131 2 1/64
A#/Bb 2.0751 2 5/64 A#/Bb 1.9001 1 29/32
B 1.9586 1 31/32 B 1.7935 1 51/64
C 1.8487 1 55/64 C 1.6928 1 45/64
C#/Db 1.745 1 3/4 C#/Db 1.5978 1 39/64
D 1.647 1 21/32 D 1.5081 1 33/64
D#/Eb 1.5546 1 9/16 D#/Eb 1.4235 1 7/16
E 1.4673 1 15/32 E 1.3436 1 11/32
F 1.385 1 25/64 F 1.2682 1 9/32
F#/Gb 1.3072 1 5/16 F#/Gb 1.197 1 13/64
G 1.2339 1 15/64 G 1.1298 1 9/64

Here is some perspective on the difference. (edit: the format got screwed up in my chart)

Old Roth violins are relatively valuable (1220's). The are factory violins but have a nice reputation and following.

[Nuno A.]

I really wonder how small are your hands and fingers, i have really small hands and fingers and i always played 3/4 basses without problems, i have 2 basses, one with 41" string length and the other with 42". Im no Mingus but the problems that i have are mostly from lack of practice than from the hands dimension...
Are you using correct Double Bass technique?
good luck

Nuno