Exploration in the world of the Double (Upright) Bass

[slapmachine]

Hey guys, I know a thing or two about the electric world of playing and overall instruments, quality, and what to look for, but when it comes to upright, I know just about as much as the jazz flutist knows. (I know some of you jazz flutists may know some more about upright than me too, so don't take it the wrong way, just a comparrison ). I'm looking into buying an upright, one of those "best bang for the buck" type of deals. I have never played an upright, and look forward to stumbling through it just as I did electric. That's just the way I learn best. What do I look for in an upright bass? What can I expect for a decent beginner upright price-wise? Where SHOULD I look for one?

I'm reaching out to the other side of the spectrum in the world of bass playing, and calling on none other than the people who live for bass than my fellow TB'rs. Hope you can help me find a clear-cut path for my ventures into the double-bass phenomena.

Thanks,


Brooks

[crowsmengegus]

Hi Brooks. Learning to play a "real" bass will be the best decision you've ever made. First thing to do is take a look at the newbie links here: BASS FORUM LINKS (Newbie Links): PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING NEW TOPICS

A couple of big differences between BG and DB:

1. There's not really any such thing as a functional, dirt cheap upright, like there is in the world of guitars. A base starting price is around 1200-1500 USD for something decent to play.

2. Proper technique is extremely important to prevent injury. "Stumbling through it" is not recommended without occasional supervision from a teacher.

So, that said, perhaps you could look at renting a DB for a bit and taking a couple lessons. Do you have any place nearby that you could rent? Any DB teachers in your area?

[drurb]

Excellent advice from crow. You'd do well to follow it closely. The best thing we can do for you is to steer you away from the low-end junk. Unless, that is, you're a DIYer, have an extremely limited budget, and are willing to nurse along a poorly made instrument with modifications and fixes. I'm guessing that's not you.

A proper setup on a DB is of paramount importance. A proper setup on a DB is of paramount importance. Yeah, I know I said that twice. It does matter from whom you buy! Buy from a real bass shop that can deliver the bass with a good setup. Avoid guitar shops and mass-market retailers. If you let us know where you live, perhaps folks here can point you in the direction of a shop within striking distance.

What's your budget? While knowing "brands" in the DB world doesn't give you quite the same information it does in the BG world, IMO, it is a reliable factor when considering entry-level basses. There are precious few quality instruments at the entry level. If that's where your budget lies, we can steer you toward them.

Welcome to the dark side!

Just wait until we start discussing strings.

[slapmachine]

I appreciate such support haha, something that I'll definitely need in doing this. I live in Kansas City (Kansas). My price range isn't too high because I'm only in high school = /. I was told the same thing though about learning electric bass, and I don't get traditional lessons well. I get distracted and end up learning things by ear or by reading music theory books haha. I'm trying to rally as much money as possible with the help of my parents and selling off an unwanted 1000 watt full stack. I'd love any possible tips on where my price-range would be though, I'm not a cheap-ass, just not rich = /.

Brooks

[longfinger]

There are 7 upright basses listed in the KC craigslist, and 5 of them are in your price range. Some of the owners of those instruments may also be able to give you advice.

kansas city all for sale / wanted classifieds "upright bass" - craigslist

[jayscheuerle]

Brooks, regardless of the music theory, an instructor can assist you in technique that may help prevent repetitive stress injuries. Electric Bass to Upright bass is akin to going from playing Madden Football on your Xbox to the NFL. You could get hurt. Not only that, but forcing yourself to take the long way could result in a bit of frustration. Most of what the UB and the EB have in common is the word "bass". - j

[slapmachine]

I appreciate the help guys, I went to a local string shop that offers more entry level UB's and I found a decent one that I may do a rent-to-own thing on. All the rent goes directly towards the purchase of the bass, so it makes it a lot easier. Cosmetically it looks pretty solid, it has a few scratches, but no cracks, it's actually one of the newer of the beginner basses they have there. It's priced at 1900 which is a little steep for my liking, but it will allow me to pay it off over a long period of time or shorter if I felt like I wanted full ownership. It's 600 dollars for a year of rent in advance including insurance, and that goes to the purchase of the bass too. Is that a good deal? Lessons are about 25 for a 30min block which I still have to figure out, but I'm sure I could manage that.


Thanks,

Brooks

[drurb]

Difficult to say. What kind of bass is it? How old is it? It would be best to have a more experienced player, luthier, and/or teacher help you make the evaluation. IME, $1900 is above the median price for quality new ply basses.

[slapmachine]

I'm not sure if it was a new play bass or not. Is there a possibility it could be a really cheap carved? I'd have to call back. Next week I'm going up with a friend who is attending the Chicago School of Violin Making. The basses that come out of his shop are starting at 5000, so that's the main reason I didn't buy from him because he's got a great knack for perfection and detail when it comes to doing any kind of work. Anyway I'm sure he could tell me in a heartbeat looking at it whether or not it'd be one to consider or not.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by slapmachine

Is there a possibility it could be a really cheap carved?

Well, if it were, it sure wouldn't be worth buying at all.

[slapmachine]

What are the different types of upright bass? I know there is carved and maybe? ply? I don't know the range in quality from type to type, although by just looking at the prices I can see that ply is generally cheaper. Is carved considered the type of upright that just generally doesn't crack / have open seams as much as ply? Some clarification would be great!

Thanks guys for all your help!


Brooks

[drurb]

Brooks, please do your homework. The newbie links were written to answer these basic questions. They contain a wealth of information. crow linked you to them in the very first response to your original post.

It is the carved basses that are the most susceptible to cracks and open seams. Yup, more expensive, generally higher quality, and need more care and feeding.

As I've said before:

...think of ply, hybrid, and carved as three overlapping distributions (skewed bell-curves, if you will), with the mean value of "quality" being lowest for the plys, intermediate for the hybrids, and highest for the carved ones. Ply tops just don't produce the complexity of tone of a carved top and that complexity of tone is usually highly desirable. I've never encountered a fully-ply bass that even came close to producing the tone of a good hybrid or carved bass. I'm excluding cheapo hybrids and carved basses from consideration here.

Hybrid vs. carved can be a little trickier. Again, excluding the cheapos, one can certainly encounter some hybrids that will beat some fully carved ones. It's the distribution again.

Here's my suggestion. Pull up a chair, read the newbie links and then do some targeted searches regarding your questions. Read, read, read. Read this as well. Then come back with questions.

[DubSound]

I live in kc as well, and I will be renting a DB from KC strings this week. Might be something you want to look into. It's reasonably priced and they rent quality instruments.

[slapmachine]

Sorry Drurb =/. I'll read some. NO WAY Dub!!! I was in there yesterday to take a peak and get some info haha. I'm going to have a friend that works with his uncle and makes pretty good basses take a look to verify that they're something worth looking at. I am strongly considering doing a rent to own thing.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by slapmachine

Sorry Drurb =/. I'll read some. NO WAY Dub!!! I was in there yesterday to take a peak and get some info haha. I'm going to have a friend that works with his uncle and makes pretty good basses take a look to verify that they're something worth looking at. I am strongly considering doing a rent to own thing.

No problem at all. Prompted by your question, I took a look at the newbie links and discovered that there was no thread that directly defined and addressed the differences among plys, hybrids, and fully-carved basses. I searched through a bunch of threads, identified a short one that suffices nicely, and our esteemed moderator, Chris, was kind enough to add it to the list of links. Here's the thread.

[engedi1]

All very good advice. Regarding the bass, I am of the opinion that unless you have $5,000 or more to spend, I would only look at Ply or hybrid basses if you price range is $1500 or so. You can get a nice Shen sb80 brand new for $1200 and used for $800 to $900, come up all the time on craigslist out here. I recommend going this route as these basses, although not super loud, are built like tanks and are easy to maintain, and if you end up not liking upright bass, you aren't out $3000 and it will be easy to resell.

Regarding a teacher, this is an ABSOLUTE MUST!!!! Save $500 on a cheaper bass and use that money for a GOOD teacher, one who has a degree in bass preferably or who plays orchestra or jazz professionally (many many Choices in KC for both) I have a 15 year old student and I got to him from the beginning before bad habits have set in, and it is STILL uphill work for both of us to keep him on the straight and narrow. If you can only get 10 lessons with a competent teacher (especially on arco playing) then maybe you can have a foundation of decent technique laid that will prevent you from getting serious tendonitis (as Les Claypool got when he tried to teach himself upright bass) or carpal tunnel syndrome.
If you can't afford a degree'd teacher, call the professor at the local university, and ask him to recommend one his better students who may offer you lessons for $15 per hour. WAY better than no lessons. When I was getting my degree, me and many of my friends taught lessons to high school students to help meet the bills and I am sure you can find one.
It is such a different world from elec bass you can't imagine. I will say this, take the plunge! Dive in! Learning upright bass has made me 10X the electric player I could've been without upright bass. You WILL NOT regret the investment of time and money.

[slapmachine]

Thanks Drurb, I did a little searching when you said "pull up a chair and read" haha. I did, well, just that xD. I appreciate you doing a little digging though, those threads also helped display the information clearly, and they really should be added to the list of newbie links by Chris. I appreciate the insight engedi1. With the rent to own thing, I would be able to pay like that $600 for the year of rent on the bass, then be able to spend some dough on the lessons without paying for the bass all together in one price.

[Andrew McGregor]

+1 to the teacher... I've tried to think of another activity that might require you to do 5kg pulls with your little finger at four per second for several minutes, and I don't think there is one. That means that how not to hurt yourself isn't obvious.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by slapmachine

Thanks Drurb, I did a little searching when you said "pull up a chair and read" haha. I did, well, just that xD. I appreciate you doing a little digging though, those threads also helped display the information clearly, and they really should be added to the list of newbie links by Chris. I appreciate the insight engedi1. With the rent to own thing, I would be able to pay like that $600 for the year of rent on the bass, then be able to spend some dough on the lessons without paying for the bass all together in one price.

Thanks for doing that. Folks here tend to want to be even more helpful to those who help themselves-- even a little bit. The TB thread I identified was added to the links by Chris. If you find any others that you think are to-the-point and address fundamental "newbie" issues, please communicate with Chris. He's quite receptive to improving the links for the good of us all. Now that you have more of a foundation, by all means, feel free to let the questions rip. BTW, were you referring to the Gage discussion to which I linked? Whether that should or could (rules re linking to commercial sites) be included in the newbie links is really up to the mods.

[dvh]

Didn't have a teacher when I started on DB.

Went to one one two years later.

All the difference in the world. Wish I'd gotten one sooner....