F Hole Origins

[Ike Harris]

Hi Bassers-

I have a friend who teaches Humanities in high school with a question that I couldn't answer definitively. Where did the f hole get it's shape? And does the shape have anything to do with tone/volume? My guess was something to do with the Amati/Strad school, possibly just evolution of different makers' styles - don't know for sure. Who wants the floor - Ken, Arnold?

Thanks,

Ike

[totalimmortal08]

i'd like to know where it came from too. never thought about it till now..

[Mark Clout]

Ya. It should be in the shape of a bass clef!

[Ike Harris]

I did find, after doing a search, another thread on the subject a couple of years old and didn't really find any real answer still. After looking around on the web and at a book I have on antique instruments, it looks like the early gamba makers were beginning to produce some with f-shaped holes around the 15th century. When Andrea Amati(grandfather of Strad's teacher) produced violins in the mid 16th century, they had the traditional f-holes. I read that these are the earliest violins that exist today, so I'm guessing with makers wanting to keep tradition alive, this would be the origin of that shape in the violin family. As far as tone, my understanding is that in addition to projecting sound, the holes help to make the top table vibrate by having some form of flex point midway down it's length. Kind of like a port in a speaker, which this is anyway. Would like to hear any other thoughts on the matter from those "in the know".

Ike

[nathanmcnathan]

they originally started out as @-holes, but that was a lot harder for luthiers to make

[eeyorebass]

I know that the middle bit of the "f" provides a reference for where to place the bridge on the top. I wonder if that practical use had an influence on the final shape.

jeremy

[Liko]

Originally Posted by Ike Harris

As far as tone, my understanding is that in addition to projecting sound, the holes help to make the top table vibrate by having some form of flex point midway down it's length. Kind of like a port in a speaker, which this is anyway. Would like to hear any other thoughts on the matter from those "in the know".

Ike

You're almost there. If you look at the F-holes on a "classical" stringed instrument (violin family instead of guitar family), you'll find they are centered on either side of the bridge. The construction of the instrument with the floating bridge is such that the bridge is the major conductor of vibration to the top table. The F-holes allow the top table to vibrate the most at the bridge, which is the most efficient design in terms of getting the entire body of the instrument to resonate.

A guitar is similar in theory, but results in a different design. The guitar is built so that the part of the top just under the bridge is the freest to vibrate. The top is braced everywhere else to keep it from tearing itself apart under tension, but the bridge is braced the least possible amount, so when the string vibrates, the vibrations are conducted through the most vibrant part of the top, allowing the instrument to resonate more. F-holes on a flat body would defeat a lot of the bracing so the sound hole was instead placed further away from the bridge in between various bracings. It has the added effect of increasing projection, as the hole really does act like a port in a speaker cabinet. The F-holes of a violin do not project as much, which would be counterproductive anyway; all the sound would project upwards. They are merely an aid to flexibility of an otherwise very rigid top.

[Jeremy Darrow]

Liko said: "A guitar is similar in theory, but results in a different design. The guitar is built so that the part of the top just under the bridge is the freest to vibrate. The top is braced everywhere else to keep it from tearing itself apart under tension, but the bridge is braced the least possible amount, so when the string vibrates, the vibrations are conducted through the most vibrant part of the top, allowing the instrument to resonate more. F-holes on a flat body would defeat a lot of the bracing so the sound hole was instead placed further away from the bridge in between various bracings. "

You're talking about a fixed-bridge guitar here. It could be interesting (or not) to note that arch-top guitars and some mandolins are not totally unlike violin family instruments on the inside.

Jeremy

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Darrow

.... It could be interesting (or not) to note that arch-top guitars and some mandolins are not totally unlike violin family instruments on the inside ...

Or even on the outside . David Rawlings' 1935 Epiphone Olympic archtop guitar with its classic-looking f-holes sure does sound good to me. It almost looks like a mini-bass to my eye ... even down to the the tailpiece set-up. I love the sound of that guitar ... Of course he could probably play a Sears-Roebuck build-it-at-home kit special and sound damn good. Who needs an upright when you got a player like Mr. Rawlings and his mini-bass ? It even has that classic sunburst finish like the early Epi basses . Y'all even might want to play along with Red Clay at home .... it's fun and cheap entertainment . Totally amazing when he reaches in his backpocket and whips his capo out in mid-stream so he can switch from bassman to leadman. I love it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7knB...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPsp3...eature=related

[Ike Harris]

Ok, the notches represent the halfway point of the f hole to provide a center for the bridge placement, over where there is no bracing. But there is the bass bar nearby and the soundpost(violin inst's) on the other side for stability and vibration transmission. It all works together, the strings vibrate over the bridge, which sends it down into the center of the top table, where the sound holes help it move, sending the vibrations to the bass bar and the sound post, which connects to the back table, which helps project the sound though the whole instrument, some of which come out the ff's(leg-bone connected to the . .hip bone. .).

Alright how about the actual shape of the ff's? Tradition or practical? Helps if they're big enough to work on the sound post. Bigger = louder? Or just a maker's signature? I think there's an article in The Strad about Stradivari making all sorts of careful measurements for his ff's to for maximum efficiency of sound(vibration?). Anybody?

Ike

[drurb]

Beyond the interesting question of the origin of the shape of the f-holes, this strikes me as a great deal of flailing around. There are, after all, volumes of studies of the relevant acoustics. Here is but one. It would be nice if someone well-versed in this material would help out with an answer.