Fingerboard Question

Dr.Ken · #1 02-21-2007, 04:02 PM

I did a search and came up short, so I thought I'd post this question.

Has anyone run across a DB with koa wood as the fingerboard? I just picked up what I lovingly call "Frankenbass" from a luthier friend who restored it as a piece damaged in shipment.

Short story: He gets a dmaaged bass cheap and thinks the wood is "ebonized" and decides to clean it up. Lo and behold the wood is koa and looks extremely cool so he leaves it as is. He is a very accomplished luthier (not bass specific) and has never run across a koa fingerboard before.

Just curious to see if anyone has thoughts or experience. The bass itself plays great and has no distinguishing markings or identifiers. The back and sides are flamed maple. No rare or big deal here other than the koa.

LouisF · #2 02-21-2007, 04:05 PM

I've seen Koa tailpieces and they seem pretty stable/solid.

IdahoSwing58 · #3 02-21-2007, 06:43 PM

Koa grain tends to be pretty wavy. Might be hard to dress with a plane and scraper. See other posts - sanding, oft required on a board with wavy grain, does not typically result in a smoothly curved surface, but with some waviness/bumpiness. This is a hypothesis, not based in experience.

LouisF · #4 02-21-2007, 07:07 PM

FYI - Hope it helps.

http://www.mikepecanic.com/images/finalwoods/koa.jpg

Louis

Jeff Bollbach · #5 02-21-2007, 11:25 PM

Straight even grain is crucial in a bass fingerboard. If not you get lots of problems when the wood moves seasonally. Any wood that has a degree of waviness is not suitable.

LouisF · #6 02-22-2007, 12:48 AM

Then, just out of curiousity, why are these woods good for tailpieces (as I'm sure they are; other wise Mike P wouldn't be using them). Could you explain the dynamics/physics there - if you have time?

Thanks

louis

Jeff Bollbach · #7 02-22-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

Then, just out of curiousity, why are these woods good for tailpieces (as I'm sure they are; other wise Mike P wouldn't be using them). Could you explain the dynamics/physics there - if you have time?

Thanks

louis

We suppose that any tonal qualities a tailpiece imparts are mostly due to it's density. Whether the surface of the TP is bumpy or untrue is irrelevent. A fingerboard however must maintain a high degree of precision-to thousands of an inch. Any unevenness in the grain will lead to irregular seasonal movementresulting in troublesome bumps.

Steve Swan · #8 02-22-2007, 10:03 AM

Koa isn't even as dense or durable as Maple for a fingerboard. It would be a terrible choice.

LouisF · #9 02-22-2007, 06:56 PM

Thanks, both. I find this fascinating (even if no one else does).

But... (and this might be a really dumb question) don't various kinds of woods have various densities as opposed to weight (i.e. is a pound of walnut or koa etc "heavier" than a pound of rosewood) and how does this relate to preferences for composite tailpieces.

Louis

PS: Jeff & Steve - If you're too busy to reply (or if this a REALLY stupid question) - I understand. This may be common knowledge with others. I'm just curious. I took Latin instead of chemistry in HS

theshadow2001 · #10 02-22-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

(i.e. is a pound of walnut or koa etc "heavier" than a pound of rosewood)

A pound of air weighs exactly the same as a pound of lead......they both weigh a pound. What would be different is the volume because air is less dense than lead . In other words a pound of air is going to take up a lot more space or volume than the a pound of much denser lead

Conversley a cubic foot of air will weigh much less than a cubic foot of lead due to the differences in density

If you had two of the same tail pieces in every aspect(size shape etc.) apart from the wood used on each, the tail piece with the denser wood would both weigh more and have a greater density than the other making it a better tail piece

LouisF · #11 02-22-2007, 08:00 PM

Oh! Thanks!!

COUNT ZACULA · #12 02-23-2007, 02:33 AM

Hey Ken and Louis, my bass has a cocobollo fingerboard, I can PM you pictures if youre interested. I find this stuff fascinating as well.

drurb · #13 02-23-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

...apart from the wood used on each, the tail piece with the denser wood would both weigh more and have a greater density than the other making it a better tail piece

Well, if mass was all there was to it, we'd be using lead tailpieces. My point is that I've never seen anyone (else) claim that the denser and heavier (more massive) the tailpiece, the better it is.

theshadow2001 · #14 02-23-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

My point is that I've never seen anyone (else) claim that the denser and heavier (more massive) the tailpiece, the better it is.

From a few posts up....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Bollbach

We suppose that any tonal qualities a tailpiece imparts are mostly due to it's density.

Of course density isn't the only variable thats just being overly simplistic. But thats what I based my assumption on. Im sure jeff knows one or two things

LouisF · #15 02-23-2007, 03:35 PM

Thanks... I'm glad I'm not alone on this!

Louis

Eric DeVine · #16 02-24-2007, 12:14 PM

I would be shocked if it actually was a koa fingerboard. Koa is not cheap! First to use koa (because of its lack of density and not so stright grain) would be silly enough, but then to paint over (ebonize) it. I would think maybe it could be rosewood or some other wood on that bass.
Just my .02

Dr.Ken · #17 02-24-2007, 09:08 PM

Been watching this for a while and thought I'd post a pic. Looks like this board only lets you post 640x640 <150kb images.

So, as a trial, here goes. Hope the pic attaches.

Dr.Ken · #18 02-24-2007, 09:13 PM

Here is another pic of the bass. Again, no idea what this thing really is, but the sound is great. I'm sure that is mostly the work of the set-up and prep. I'm sure it is a CCB of some sort, but it has no identifying marks.

Eric DeVine · #19 02-25-2007, 01:55 AM

Wow, looks awsome, how could you cover that up?

LouisF · #20 02-25-2007, 01:10 PM

being Sunday and all, here's the meditation for the morning:

I was at Nick Roubas's shop yesterday. Nick did the refinish on my Argentine bass and is rebuilding thi 3-string 1840's bass we found ito what should be a really spectacular smaller instrument for me. He is almost exclusively a violin maker (http://www.violuthier.com), but said something that resonated with me yesterday - that each bass is unique in ways that vioins and cellos just aren't any more - and whether its the odd koa fingerboard, or the fact that the bass is from Argentina or that we use X strings as opposed to Y, or German v. French bow, or bent endpin or not, we, as a bass playing tribe, seem to value our individuality in ways the other string players do not and want that expressed in the instrument, and the sound we make.

Okay, that's it.

Louis