First accoustic gig

[pfactor2]

I played my first fully accoustic gig last night. Great confidence (and blister) maker. But there is aways a catch, the E string was almost non-existent. Any insight?

[drurb]

Gee, I think you gotta give us a little more than that!

1) What kind of bass?
2) How is it set up?
3) Amplified or not?
4) What strings?
5) In what venue were you playing?
6) How does it sound in your practice room?
7) How do the environments in 6 and 7 above compare?
8) How long have you been playing?

[mattfong]

Well #3 was answered already lol.

[pfactor2]

Originally Posted by drurb

Gee, I think you gotta give us a little more than that!

1) What kind of bass?
2) How is it set up?
3) Amplified or not?
4) What strings?
5) In what venue were you playing?
6) How does it sound in your practice room?
7) How do the environments in 6 and 7 above compare?
8) How long have you been playing?

1kay
2good ?
3accoustic as stated
4helicore orch/piz
5 30/30/14 residential sparce room private party
6similar
7practice area air/cond garage
8upright 10 months. elec 35

this weekend first paying gig will supplement with realist/mic, but also accoustic, thank god only 2 sets

[AndreasH]

The E is always pretty hard to get out there acoustically.
Maybe you should try some other strings than steel. Maybe you want to check out Velvet Animas/Garbos or even Gut strings?

I myself play Velvet Garbos and they sound HUGE acoustically!

[drurb]

Originally Posted by pfactor2

I played my first fully accoustic gig last night. Great confidence (and blister) maker. But there is aways a catch, the E string was almost non-existent. Any insight?

Originally Posted by mattfong

Well #3 was answered already lol.

Originally Posted by pfactor2

1kay
2good ?
3accoustic as stated
4helicore orch/piz
5 30/30/14 residential sparce room private party
6similar
7practice area air/cond garage
8upright 10 months. elec 35

this weekend first paying gig will supplement with realist/mic, but also accoustic, thank god only 2 sets

Actually, it was ambiguous as to whether the bass was amplified or not. I did consider this before I posted. What the OP could have meant was that this was his first gig with an "acoustic bass." That is language an EB player might use. The OP's profile is basically empty so I asked the question.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by AndreasH

The E is always pretty hard to get out there acoustically.
Maybe you should try some other strings than steel. Maybe you want to check out Velvet Animas/Garbos or even Gut strings?

I myself play Velvet Garbos and they sound HUGE acoustically!

Agreed-- but the E shouldn't, in general, be dead and it depends a great deal on the room.

[mattfong]

Originally Posted by drurb

Actually, it was ambiguous as to whether the bass was amplified or not. I did consider this before I posted. What the OP could have meant was that this was his first gig with an "acoustic bass." That is language an EB player might use. The OP's profile is basically empty so I asked the question.

Ah, I didn't think of it that way. Good point.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by AndreasH

The E is always pretty hard to get out there acoustically.

I always thought this was kind of true too. But a recent trip to my luthier changed my perspective. The work they did really opened up the E and the A in my case. What I am saying is maybe the bass would benefit from a "health check" and might need some adjustments to sound its best.

If you got blisters on your right hand (you didn't say), are you plucking with the tips of your fingers, or the side of your fingers? I started off all wrong coming from EB w/ my right hand technique.

[MingusAmongUs]

Here's a few more questions, and maybe a new answer or two.

What instruments were playing with you?
Were they loud/acoustic/amped?
Maybe an amped guitar or electric piano?
Drums?
Does the volume sound weak even when you're playing by yourself?

Some basses/players can make themselves heard over a jet engine. Some can't. Me and mine are somewhere in the middle.

It's possible your bass just isn't a loud one. But, if you haven't had it setup properly by a good luthier, then you owe it to yourself to do so. They can do magic sometimes. If it's *only* the E string that's giving you trouble, it's very likely a setup problem.

And, as others have said, maybe different strings will help, although I wouldn't recommend going down that rabbit hole. Find a good sound with Helis or spiros and THEN try experimenting, is what I would do. If it turns out that your bass just isn't that loud, gut strings or certain synthetics may help carry the fundamental sound farther across a room.... but that's for another thread. Keep us posted.

Edit:
Here's something that's probably much more important than anything else I already said. You've been playing for 10 months... are you taking lessons? It takes a lot of time and practice to get enough technique together to make a decent sound out of this instrument. Patience and hard work is in order. And though this may seem counterintuitive, it's been my experience that the left hand is much more critical than the right in getting volume and good tone. It may seem like pulling harder with the right hand will give you more volume but it ain't necessarily so. Sometimes pulling hard with the right hand only chokes the sound, and ironically makes it quieter. So you may be giving yourself blisters for nothing.

[jgbass]

I am more concerned about the comment of blisters. Blisters do not imply good technique. Maybe there is something in how the strings are plucked that is contributing to not getting a good sound on the E string. I just never had any blisters from playing DB.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

And though this may seem counterintuitive, it's been my experience that the left hand is much more critical than the right in getting volume and good tone.

Jamie, and anyone else too please - Care to share some left hand "How To's" or "Do's and Dont's" that have worked well for you?

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by bolo

Jamie, and anyone else too please - Care to share some left hand "How To's" or "Do's and Dont's" that have worked well for you?

Well.... aside from the 'proper technique' (I use, or try to use, the Simandl 1-2-4 for the most part), I think it's a personal thing. I just try to make good, solid contact with the string, using arm weight, without squeezing too hard. Thumb as a fulcrum behind 2nd finger, etc. Hopefully someone else has something more poignant to add but for me it's something I would be better demonstrating rather than talking about.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

Well.... aside from the 'proper technique' (I use, or try to use, the Simandl 1-2-4 for the most part), I think it's a personal thing. I just try to make good, solid contact with the string, using arm weight, without squeezing too hard. Thumb as a fulcrum behind 2nd finger, etc. Hopefully someone else has something more poignant to add but for me it's something I would be better demonstrating rather than talking about.

I agree completely. I can't imagine trying to describe left-hand technique. For me anyway, it has progressed by listening and watching my teachers and other fine bassists and attempting to emulate aspects of the sound that are desirable. So much of the sound is in that left hand.

[bolo]

Originally Posted by drurb

I can't imagine trying to describe left-hand technique.

Hm ... Actually I think many pedagogical books and articles do describe left hand technique in great detail without the benefit of any “live” demonstration. Perhaps some still photographs.

I realize working on LHT 1-on-1 w/ a teacher who can demonstrate and observe is the most efficient and effective method to learn. I was just looking for other people's take on things for people to perhaps focus on or conceptualize that might help me and others who read this thread.

In fact I think Jamie did a real nice job. So thanks for that.

Originally Posted by drurb

For me anyway, it has progressed by listening and watching my teachers and other fine bassists and attempting to emulate aspects of the sound that are desirable.

Yeah, me too. But I'll still consider any tips people care to share here.

Percy Heath said something in a BP article once about at least a portion of the sound coming from the muscles around the buttocks. I still haven't quite figured that one out. I'll have to go look that one up again.

[larry]

Originally Posted by bolo

Percy Heath said something in a BP article once about at least a portion of the sound coming from the muscles around the buttocks.

Depends what I've had to eat, but I don't see how that relates to bass playing...




Oh come on. Someone had to say it. Can't believe it took over an hour. Bunch of high-brows around here?

[downneck]

Originally Posted by larry

Depends what I've had to eat, but I don't see how that relates to bass playing...




Oh come on. Someone had to say it. Can't believe it took over an hour. Bunch of high-brows around here?

well, this IS the double bass side of TB. we're supposed to be classier, no?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by bolo

Hm ... Actually I think many pedagogical books and articles do describe left hand technique in great detail without the benefit of any “live” demonstration. Perhaps some still photographs.

I realize working on LHT 1-on-1 w/ a teacher who can demonstrate and observe is the most efficient and effective method to learn. I was just looking for other people's take on things for people to perhaps focus on or conceptualize that might help me and others who read this thread.

In fact I think Jamie did a real nice job. So thanks for that. Yeah, me too. But I'll still consider any tips people care to share here.

Percy Heath said something in a BP article once about at least a portion of the sound coming from the muscles around the buttocks. I still haven't quite figured that one out. I'll have to go look that one up again.

Whoa! I wasn't suggesting that no one could describe left-hand technique. I was referring to myself. That is, I couldn't adequately describe left-hand technique. Then again, I'm not a professional teacher. With all due respect, and I suspect Jamie would agree, what he described is a start but would hardly propel you far along the way to developing fine left-hand tone.

I'll go yet a step further and say that I believe that one can read for hours and hours many good descriptions and instructions regarding the techniques for developing good left-hand tone but one or two lessons with a good teacher would get one farther along. For me anyway, it's similar to the subtleties of good arco technique. Back in my classical days, when I advanced past the mechanics and started with a teacher who taught me the artistry, I would have been hard pressed to try and learn from any book the things he taught me about subtle wrist movements and control.

Now that I've said all that, I'll try to comply a bit with your request. In addition to what Jamie said, some factors (of many) that I think are important are how firmly one presses on the string and when (think growl), what part of the fingers are actually used, how and when to slide into notes, when to move across as opposed to holding down strings simultaneously, vibrato,-- the list goes on and on and on...

[bolo]

Okay thanks. Yes I was thinking more of those concise things that resulted in a "light bulb" moment if you will, not an entire primer on technique. More like things your teacher may have said that really helped you understand what to do and not to do re: LHT.

I still can picture Rufus Reid doing his "chicken wing" analogy in his DVD re: getting the right arm involved and helping embody the pulse. Bits of brilliance like that. Come on, I know you've got 'em.

[bolo]

Found it. May 2004 BP, p. 38, Percy Heath says:

"My own concept for tone is to have a balance between the pressure of your left hand and how hard you pull the strings with your right. Everybody starts out overplaying, pulling too hard and doing everything from their arms. Instead you have to learn how to use the proper muscles and keep your arms loose - the strength has to come from your legs and buttocks."

Some mental images you just can't shake off.