French Style Basses - Bisch, Quenoil

anonymous12251111 · #1 12-13-2007, 06:41 PM

Does anyone know of any French style Rabbath basses with sloped shoulders and tapered ribs being made by modern luthiers today? I know Mr. Laborie and Grunertmakes a beautiful copy, but I can't afford 20,000.00-30,000.00 Euros.

Thanks

Also, anyone with any info on older 1920's basses that are going around in the market please PM me

thanks.

EJ_Dad · #2 12-13-2007, 07:25 PM

One of the exhibitors at the ISB was selling a Romanian bass in that shape for much less than 20k euros. I don't remember his name, but he was from Arlington TX and played cello in the Ft Worth Symphony. Looking at the exhibit hall map, it may have been Wayne Burak

KSB - Ken Smith · #3 12-13-2007, 10:53 PM

Arnold Schnitzer had one in his shop the last time I was there. Not a Romanian copy but the real deal.

JAKBOUND · #4 12-14-2007, 06:49 AM

According to the web site Jaqques Gagnon offers one in the Phillipines. I believe a couple of shops in the northeast stock his basses. Nahrmann Basses perhaps.
I am curious to know how the Bisch on Ken Smith's site sounded. I suspect very well, as it wasn't around long.

KSB - Ken Smith · #5 12-14-2007, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKBOUND

I am curious to know how the Bisch on Ken Smith's site sounded. I suspect very well, as it wasn't around long.

Gee, who would you ask about that to find out? I wonder..

Eric Hochberg · #6 12-14-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKBOUND

According to the web site Jaqques Gagnon offers one in the Phillipines. I believe a couple of shops in the northeast stock his basses. Nahrmann Basses perhaps.

I spoke with Volker Nahrmann about this a few months ago and at that point he had no experience with the Gagnon Quenoil model.

anonymous12251111 · #7 12-14-2007, 01:54 PM

Do you think a French style "SOLO" bass with sloped shoulders could ever potentially have the sound and resonance to match an orchestral section?

BRIDGE · #8 12-14-2007, 07:54 PM

Just out of curiosity I searched and found that Eastman Strings makes one.

How is Quenoil pronounced? Surely it's not "kwen-oyle." Right?

KSB - Ken Smith · #9 12-14-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Do you think a French style "SOLO" bass with sloped shoulders could ever potentially have the sound and resonance to match an orchestral section?

No, I don't think so. That's why Orchestra basses are still being made of the larger sizes.

KSB - Ken Smith · #10 12-14-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRIDGE

Just out of curiosity I searched and found that Eastman Strings makes one.

How is Quenoil pronounced? Surely it's not "kwen-oyle." Right?

I think its kwie-noll or Kwie-nall (Que-noil) or at least that's how I say it.

KSB - Ken Smith · #11 12-14-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

Do you think a French style "SOLO" bass with sloped shoulders could ever potentially have the sound and resonance to match an orchestral section?

Yes, a bass like that can be used in an Orchestra but not an Orchestra with a section full of Cannons. If it is an amateur Orchestra with Juzeks and similar grade basses then this Bass if restored correctly like the one Arnold is just completing then I say yes. That bass was loud before he opened it up. It just wasn't at its best. I am sure it is usable in a smaller type orchestra as mentioned. Not the NY Phil! My Loveri was in there and that wasn't' enough sound then. Now that I am having it restored, the only thing small might be the looks of the shoulders, not the sound. Actually I used the Loveri before and I got many compliments. The Dodd was only slightly fatter sounding but the Loveri had more punch and actually a sweeter tone as well.

Play the basses. The better ones will by your call to choose usage. Most French Basses need work to make them sound their optimum as they are heavily wooded to say the least.

PaulCannon · #12 12-15-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Yes, a bass like that can be used in an Orchestra but not an Orchestra with a section full of Cannons.

Why, thank you.

I think it's pronounced "KEN-wah." And no, I wouldn't recommend these basses for orchestral use. At least, not as they are typically set up: with thin solo strings or Corellis, no more than a few millimeters above the fingerboard. Even Rabbath used a bigger bass was he was in an opera orchestra.

JAKBOUND · #13 12-15-2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Gee, who would you ask about that to find out? I wonder..

I believe that would be you Ken.
I must remeber I am on a forum not typing more reports.
My excuse: Where I am now it was late at night!!!

ANyway, how did it sound / play ?

TimoMetzemakers · #14 12-15-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

I think it's pronounced "KEN-wah."

Yes, that's correct.

Steve Swan · #15 12-15-2007, 08:57 AM

I sold one of those Eastman Quenoil basses to a smallish woman who plays folk and jazz music with it. The smaller shoulders help keep the neck closer to her head for better shoulder and upper arm leverage for her left hand. It wasn't that much quieter than the Eastman busetto model of the same quality level that I usually carry. I was politely but persistently corrected on my former pronunciation of "Kwee-noil" by a visiting student from Dallas who actually took French in college. I took Spanish, which didn't help my biological science studies nearly as much as German would have. Oh, well. Choices when we're young...

anonymous12251111 · #16 12-15-2007, 10:19 AM

It slightly baffles me why people would want a Quinoil bass then? Surely, they don't have aspirations of being a soloist surely? I just thought a large orchestral bass that has small tapered shoulders would be sufficient for "Rabbath" style solo playing and heavy orchestral work.

KSB - Ken Smith · #17 12-15-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAKBOUND

I believe that would be you Ken.
I must remeber I am on a forum not typing more reports.
My excuse: Where I am now it was late at night!!!

ANyway, how did it sound / play ?

'Was' is the main word as it was just going into restoration. It was good for what it was and played good but needed all the set-up work. It will be back up on the market soon as Arnold is just completing a huge job on it. I am sure it will be one of the Best Basses available in its class. Don't try comparing it to a full shouldered 3/4 in the same condition or an orchestral 7/8th. I don't think it will swim with the Sharks!

PaulCannon · #18 12-15-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

It slightly baffles me why people would want a Quinoil bass then? Surely, they don't have aspirations of being a soloist surely? I just thought a large orchestral bass that has small tapered shoulders would be sufficient for "Rabbath" style solo playing and heavy orchestral work.

I want one. They sound great and are incredibly easy to play. You can learn to do things on them that just aren't realistic on bigger basses.

I just don't think they're good "all-purpose" basses. If you get one, you ought to have at least one other bass that works in an orchestra.

anonymous12251111 · #19 12-15-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

I want one. They sound great and are incredibly easy to play. You can learn to do things on them that just aren't realistic on bigger basses.

I just don't think they're good "all-purpose" basses. If you get one, you ought to have at least one other bass that works in an orchestra.

I just find that to be silly, owning a "solo" bass and an orchestral bass. Realistically how many of us are actually going to be soloists? I'm sure there are good modern orchestral basses that have very tapered upper bouts,kinda like the Pollman Salzburg or Alexandria. It's easy to want something, finding the cash is the hard part!

PaulCannon · #20 12-16-2007, 12:46 AM

Two of the graduate students here at Rice have two basses each, with two Quenoil-model Labories between them. Paul Ellison owns five basses (six if you count his violone), one of which is a Quenoil and another of which is a copy of that bass, which he lets his students use.

I might not want to be a professional soloist, but I want to be able to play solos. If I can play them better and sound better with a smaller "solo" bass, set up to play solo music, then why not? I don't have the money for it now, but when I do I'm going to get one.