"fret markers"

[Eli_Upright12]

I have always thought that it was cheating to have notes marked on the fingerboard, because I had only seen it on instruments like the WAV 4 that were meant for cross over players. However I recently saw a clip of Edgar Meyer playing and they showed a close-up of his fingerboard and sure enough he had inlaid markers at what looked like (on the g string) A C D G and C again, I was wonder what your guys opinions on this subject were?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

I have always thought that it was cheating to have notes marked on the fingerboard, because I had only seen it on instruments like the WAV 4 that were meant for cross over players. However I recently saw a clip of Edgar Meyer playing and they showed a close-up of his fingerboard and sure enough he had inlaid markers at what looked like (on the g string) A C D G and C again, I was wonder what your guys opinions on this subject were?

Look here or here.

I don't mean this to sound unfriendly in the least, but it's worth doing a search on topics before starting a new thread. Many topics go around and around here. This is also one that belongs in the Setup and Repair section.

[Eli_Upright12]

Notice that I was asking for opinions. As great of a learning tool as it is to just plug in your subject in the search engine and find some old facts, I find it very enlightening and interesting to get peoples direct reaction to questions. How do you feel about fret markers? do you think that it should only be for beginners or do you think that they can be a helpful tool for everyone? And why do you think that it should be a set-up and repair issue? as always no offense intended.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

Notice that I was asking for opinions. As great of a learning tool as it is to just plug in your subject in the search engine and find some old facts, I find it very enlightening and interesting to get peoples direct reaction to questions. How do you feel about fret markers? do you think that it should only be for beginners or do you think that they can be a helpful tool for everyone? And why do you think that it should be a set-up and repair issue? as always no offense intended.

Yes, I noticed that you were asking for opinions. I believe you will find a plethora of those in the links I gave you and in others as well. In fact, the first link I gave you stretches for six pages with the last post being just days ago. Did you take a look? Plugging in "markers" in the search under Setup and Repair yields several. Here are three more:

One, two, three.


All of the opinions for which you asked, specifically:

How do you feel about fret markers? do you think that it should only be for beginners or do you think that they can be a helpful tool for everyone?

are provided in previous and recent threads.

With regard to fingerboard markers (after all, the DB has no frets) being an issue for the Setup and Repair section, I think you will find that, historically, here on TB, that is the section in which that topic is discussed as it is considered a "setup" issue.

[Eli_Upright12]

I was asking you specifically how do you feel about those things?

[Jeff Guevin]

Eli, let me just chime in to say that I think the Dr. is right here--with this topic you're going to have better luck just reviewing these older threads than waiting for fresh responses. A lot of the regulars already spent some time discussing this topic, and it's just realistic to expect they won't be as eager the second or third time it comes up.

In my opinion, if it's good enough for Edgar, it's good enough for me, but I'm not inclined to have permanent markers put in. The black electrical tape trick is a good one.

[Eli_Upright12]

I guess thats a problem with not being around as long as some of ya'll. And I did read some of them they just seemed a little like either " yeah I use them for some notes" or "I think that you can learn with out them" very black and white for the most part. But thanks for the clear up. I guess I was thinking it was a Bass question, because its something your bass either has or doesn't I guess its something that you could modify or be a repair, but didnt seem that way in my mind.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

I was asking you specifically how do you feel about those things?

I posted in those threads. You can find all of my posts by searching for my user name within those threads. Personally, I have never found markers to be useful for anything other than at the very beginning stages of learning. I don't look at my hands on the fingerboard when I play. I can see the usefulness of limited markers to nail cold notes in difficult passages but I have not used them. As the previous threads reveal, there is quite a range of inter-individual variation of opinion on this matter. I urge you to look through all those threads. I believe you will find them enlightening. Again, I don't mean to sound unfriendly. It is simply that many of us recently posted on this topic.

[ctxbass]

I think markers can be useful, but only your ears can put you in tune. For me, being in tune is sounding good with the other musicians, and that is the determining reference point. Thank heavens for quarter notes.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

I have always thought that it was cheating to have notes marked on the fingerboard, because I had only seen it on instruments like the WAV 4 that were meant for cross over players.

If you read about the design of the NS basses they decided to put position markers on the fingerboard as their basses have no body and no physical reference points like a DB does.

I can see the point of this, as I play both a marked NS bass and an unmarked DB. So on the DB I feel no need for any marks as I always know where I am on the neck, due to the physical nature of the instrument - whereas on the NS bass I would be completely lost judging where notes above high C at the top of the stave are sited, as the neck doesn't change.

[Bass]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

...I was wonder what your guys opinions on this subject were?

I'll bite.

I've been playing DB for 5 months, and used "fret" markers for the first 2 or 3 weeks while learning. Tiny round stickers on the side of the fingerboard at the 2nd, 4th and 5th "fret" seemed to work well. I found this very helpful to learn how far apart my fingers were supposed to be. What a difference from the e-bass!

BUT, I think they are totally unneccessary and perhaps destructive in the long run. Once removiong the dots, I found myself listening to where my hand is supposed to be, rather than looking at where my hand is supposed to be. I still tend to look at my hand every now and then, but have a notion that this throws off my stance / mechanics. I'm making an effort to not look at my hand whatsoever while practicing.

Oh, and since the infamous Ken Smith packed up his marbles and went home, I'm pleased to offer you this with tongue firmly in cheek:

You are playing a DB with Frets? If this was just a typo on your part, then the first thing you should learn is the names of the parts of the Bass and Bow as well as how to care for them.

Knowing your instrument, and how to care for it will help you to respect it. Respecting your Bass and Bow will help you to play it.

Switching from bass guitar to double bass, advice?

[Eli_Upright12]

I originally came from electric to upright but it was at a fairly early point in my playing so I was looking at my hand and the fingerboard alot on electric, so when I came to upright I did it a little especially because a lot of the rentals had strips of tap straight across the finger board.

But my real reason for asking was answered by Bruce L., because in my current situation i have been forced to play a Palatino VE500 which while it has a bar on the right side to lean against has nothing on the left side as any kind of guide. even the neck pocket is a faulty marker its like a semi tone above D and below Eb, so I started using a little pencil mark for the part in the Eccles where it goes from a open g up to a high A and its impossible on that bass to find it. I was feeling almost guilty about this, but now I feel some what justified.

I guess this has kind of become a franken-post that is in triplely the wrong place, because it concerns EUBs, setup and repair, and now Orchestra technique.

but thanks a lot everyone and sorry DOC for the misplaced thread.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

...and sorry DOC for the misplaced thread.

It's cool. I was only trying to lead you quickly to the info you were seeking.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

I was asking you specifically how do you feel about those things?

You will find my opinion on this topic in at least one previous thread. It has not changed.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

If you read about the design of the NS basses they decided to put position markers on the fingerboard as their basses have no body and no physical reference points like a DB does.

I can see the point of this, as I play both a marked NS bass and an unmarked DB. So on the DB I feel no need for any marks as I always know where I am on the neck, due to the physical nature of the instrument - whereas on the NS bass I would be completely lost judging where notes above high C at the top of the stave are sited, as the neck doesn't change.

I guess that I will add this since it is something I have noticed more recently and could be similar on other DB's. Like Bruce points out, there are points in the construction where parts come together that are good references. Let's take the G string for instance. On my DB the 5th degree and the corresponding harmonic an octave up are where the neck heel bends into the neck;- it's a "D" neck. On that same G string right where the fingerboard over stand point is (that's where the fingerboard begins to extend beyond the neck);- that note is an "F" on my DB. Just before the end of the fingerboard on the G string is the major 3rd of G, two octaves up and it's harmonic. So it is sort of like having a few "solid" reference points. I'm sure even though other instruments may be made differently, that there are similar references.

So you can work with the few references that are already there or add some more. Beware though, if the instrument changes with the weather, or you raise of lower the bridge, the marks may suddenly be misleading and the references become approximate. And you should be training your ear to hear the intervals and to see what it looks like on a sheet of music simultaneously. You train your arm and hand to feel the interval by shifting up and down on one string with a simple tune. Eyes on the score, ear listening for the right tune, hand and arm finding it and repeating it. That's the best program. If you have to keep looking at your left hand, your neck will get a kink in it. Not the instument's neck;- your neck.

For what it's worth, I have side dot position markers on my fret-less electric bass guitar, and I do find them useful sometimes when I shift a long way. I think that is more similar to the Steinberg situation where the neck is very long and there is not much to go by for a great distance.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

Beware though, if the instrument changes with the weather, or you raise of lower the bridge, the marks may suddenly be misleading and the references become approximate.

Well, not really. Any such change would be inconsequential. Look here beginning with post #47.

[Nohandles]

I have been playing bass for almost 4 years and have been a musician for 30 years. I started off with the 3 start off markers. Once I felt the ear kick in I took off one and then put 2 pearl dots on the side at the 2 and 4 position. I don't stare at the fret board per say but I do realize that out of the corner of my left eye I see what is going on with the left hand. They are a reference for me but I don't really rely on them accept for when I get a little to much libations in me. Ha! Last night since this is always a heated subject I black taped over the markers, played in the dark and did fine without them. So I guess the moral to this story is put them on if you like and leave them off if you like. I still like them on and have them on my 4 basses and I will put them on any further basses I may get.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Nohandles

I don't stare at the fret board...

The what?

[Nohandles]

Originally Posted by drurb

The what?

Finger board. 6:45 in the morning here..... head doesn't work that well then..... I'll be a lot more carefull from now on Ok Pal!

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by drurb

Well, not really. Any such change would be inconsequential. Look here beginning with post #47.

That thread seems to deal with the string length, which is negligible compared to the increase in tension when a note is stopped. If the strings are high, this is worse the further away from the nut the note is. It can be enough to move the proper stop note pretty far from the corresponding harmonic. Try it on the G string with high D harmonic up in thumb position with the strings raised up some. You'll see what I'm talking about. Why do I know this??? The first bass I had was set up with the strings way up at first and it had the electrical tape markers on there. When I lowered the strings these were all wrong and worse the further up the neck one went.