Getting a bass to open up more, besides soundpost adjustment?

[tbassist4]

Hey everyone,
I posted a "Oh I'm in love with my new bass!" thread a year or so ago, and now that the proverbial honeymoon is over, I find my partner lacking quite a bit compared to other basses in this price range, and compared to others of similar models.

It sounds choked - like the bass isn't resonating or that it's being suppressed. I had the action really high for a while to try to get more volume and resonance out of it, but that didn't help much, and made it extremely hard to play. I just lowered the action significantly - which actually helped tonally, but it's still quiet and choked - for example, when I play a note on the G string and lift the bow off the string at the end of the note, it won't resonate for more than a split second, making every note sound dry. My professor has commented on this numerous times, so it's not just me.

For the 4-5k price range, I expected better. The instrument is pretty good tonally, but just doesn't provide a lot of support for that tone. What can I do? Should I get the sound post adjusted again? Is there something else that will help?

The shop I bought it from has a direct trade in deal - I get the full value I paid for that instrument back to trade toward another one from their shop. Should I just "throw in the towel" on this bass and spend an extra 2k-3k or so and trade this bass for a better one?

Thanks so much,
Tyler

[FMartin]

Are you positively sure it wouldn't improve with better/different setup and strings choice?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Your soundpost may be too tight. Basses may shrink a bit in the first year as the wood dries out, particularly if coming from a very humid environment. Anything's possible, but have the post checked. Then try some different/new strings just to be sure.

[drurb]

+1. Sound post length and position can have a substantial effect. What strings are you using now? The Corellis?

[Jason Sypher]

you might wait till the weather changes within the next month or so. The bass will likely shrink even more when the heat abates and fall settles in.

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by FMartin

Are you positively sure it wouldn't improve with better/different setup and strings choice?

Possibly, but I'm not sure. It's due for an adjustment, so that will help some. Last time I had it set up, the sound did improve noticeably, but it wasn't incredibly drastic and the bass was still quiet. One of my peers purchased a similar model that's worlds louder and fuller. The strings on mine seem fine. I couldn't find them on the string-finder here, they have blue silk with a gold spiral. I think they're some kind of D'addario string if I'm not mistaken. I only have one option around here for setup, but he seems to do a good job - I've played some of his basses for sale.

Originally Posted by clink

Your soundpost may be too tight. Basses may shrink a bit in the first year as the wood dries out, particularly if coming from a very humid environment. Anything's possible, but have the post checked. Then try some different/new strings just to be sure.

The change in climate wasn't too drastic, it came from Albuquerque, NM to Boulder, CO. Boulder is actually a little drier, but not a whole bunch. I think I'll take you up on the advice of changing strings too. I'll be getting the post adjusted either way, but I've been wanting to try something new stringwise.

Originally Posted by drurb

+1. Sound post length and position can have a substantial effect. What strings are you using now? The Corellis?

I'm not sure what kind of strings they are - They have blue silk with a gold spiral on the tailpiece end. I think that's a D'addario string of some kind. I assume they're orchestral as well, as they don't sound all that great pizz.

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

you might wait till the weather changes within the next month or so. The bass will likely shrink even more when the heat abates and fall settles in.

That sounds like a good idea, it will be a few more weeks until it gets colder here. It's brand new bass and has definitely dried out a bit - dampits can only do so much here.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Tyler,
Sorry, but I didn't see your 'besides soundpost adjustment' exclusion in the thread title.

Strings, tailpiece and cable, maybe CF endpin, playing time. Really, check the soundpost though.

Besides strings (cheap) and playing time (the bass may or may not be what you want with time), the other stuff probably will have minimal impact. IMO, you either like the bass or you don't.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

You have Helicore orchestra strings. Those things are probably dead by now and 'thudingly;-)' choking your bass. Do that and check the soundpost.

[Carl Johnson]

The best way I know to open up a bass is to use two strong but thin bladed knives in the joint between the top plate and the side bouts. Gently working through the glue with one knife while using the other as a wedge to give you room. Go slow and be careful.

[damonsmith]

Trying strings with more life in them like Spirocores and Corellis will really help. D'addarios are pretty dead strings.

Also, it seems to be disputed by some of the posters here but a lot of great, established bassists advocate things like playing harmonics arco very loud until they smooth out and long tones, again very loud right on the bridge until you get a clear tone.
In my considerable experience the more play the harmonics and the higher the partials you use the more open the bass becomes.

[tbassist4]

Originally Posted by clink

Tyler,
Sorry, but I didn't see your 'besides soundpost adjustment' exclusion in the thread title.

Strings, tailpiece and cable, maybe CF endpin, playing time. Really, check the soundpost though.

Besides strings (cheap) and playing time (the bass may or may not be what you want with time), the other stuff probably will have minimal impact. IMO, you either like the bass or you don't.

Originally Posted by clink

You have Helicore orchestra strings. Those things are probably dead by now and 'thudingly;-)' choking your bass. Do that and check the soundpost.

I think strings sounds like the best choice for a first move - the ones on there were probably old to begin with. Thanks for the ID too, I know what not to replace my current set with now. You're probably right on the playing time thing - the bass even looks new, despite the play time I already put into it. Everybody could use more practice, right? (Especially me, lol )

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

The best way I know to open up a bass is to use two strong but thin bladed knives in the joint between the top plate and the side bouts. Gently working through the glue with one knife while using the other as a wedge to give you room. Go slow and be careful.

Just like a clam, you clever little troll? Just kidding, nice one.

Originally Posted by damonsmith

Trying strings with more life in them like Spirocores and Corellis will really help. D'addarios are pretty dead strings.

Also, it seems to be disputed by some of the posters here but a lot of great, established bassists advocate things like playing harmonics arco very loud until they smooth out and long tones, again very loud right on the bridge until you get a clear tone.
In my considerable experience the more play the harmonics and the higher the partials you use the more open the bass becomes.

I'm afraid of using anything that bright, just because the G on this can get pretty nasty already with dead old orchestral strings, haha. I've heard of the harmonics thing though, and playing loud long notes. I've also been told that playing an Ab on the E string against the open A helps too. I probably just need to do a few of these things as a pre-warmup bow arm relaxer. Maybe my bass is just new and therefore hasn't even really begun to mature...

[tbassist4]

Thanks for all the help, everyone. That gives me some good direction.

[PB+J]

I would try just changing strings first. If you can, find out what strings you have on there and get a sense if they are high or low tension strings. Then try a string that's the opposite of what you have. It's sometimes hard to track down info on string tension, but somewhere on the web I found a page that identified bass strings by the wrap color/pattern

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by tbassist4

I'm afraid of using anything that bright, just because the G on this can get pretty nasty already with dead old orchestral strings, haha.

You can think of them as being more bright or you can think of them as having more harmonic information. If you can learn to work with that, you should be able to find the sound you need.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by PB+J

I would try just changing strings first. If you can, find out what strings you have on there and get a sense if they are high or low tension strings. Then try a string that's the opposite of what you have. It's sometimes hard to track down info on string tension, but somewhere on the web I found a page that identified bass strings by the wrap color/pattern

You can just tune down or up your current strings to see how the bass responds.

[Meddle771]

So what actually happens to a bass when it's in the process of "Opening up"? Is it just the wood settling into the joints? If so, wouldn't the heaviest/most violent vibration do that the best? Like triple stop open stings FFF, or like double stopped notes at the end of the FB?

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Meddle771

So what actually happens to a bass when it's in the process of "Opening up"? Is it just the wood settling into the joints? If so, wouldn't the heaviest/most violent vibration do that the best? Like triple stop open stings FFF, or like double stopped notes at the end of the FB?

When I've had a bass on the bench for a few weeks and I want to wake it up, I'll play long bow tritones for several minutes ie E/Bb, A/Eb, D/Ab.

This always opens the tone to a noticeable degree.

[JtheJazzMan]

I experimented using my 400watt 4x10 amp, using it to play frequencies into the bass. Hot damn it got the top moving....and the walls....and the bedrock.

[bejoyous]

I see you are in university. If you want to progress, you need to realize your abilities have gone beyond your instrument. It seems this is just a bad instrument. Maybe the workers at the factory in China were bummed out because of something and they forgot to thin the top or the like.

I went through the same thing in second year of my extensive secondary education. I was playing a rented full ply Hofner bass. it was too large for me with a bad set up. One time a Bluegrass band needed a bass quick for the concert was about to begin upstairs in the nice theatre. He tried mine and it wasn't good enough to play roots and fifths in the key of G, D or A!

So, even though the cost of a new one scare the crap out of me and my family, I started looking and more importantly, letting the professionals I ran into (Symphony Nova Scotia shared the building for rehearsals and concerts) know I was looking for a good instrument at a good price.

Eventually, someone delivered a beat up, in separate pieces bass in a garbage bag to Max Kasper (P. bass of SNS and luthier). He puts it together for me. He even put a French polish on it! And sold it to me for $3000. Turns out it was an 1847 Italian bass made in Padua near Venice. This bass put me through an incredible 7 year bass playing ride through university and the beginnings of a pro career.

My playing was instantly better in a huge way. All the little things I had been fighting against with the old bass were now resolved.

So, I think you should expend your energies looking for a bass that'll last you a good 10 years of pre-pro and professional work instead of trying to make a silk purse out of a cow's ear.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Don't give up on it yet. However, there's no shame in moving on. I traded a big newish Romanian bass for a smaller germanic bass that was once in pieces.
There's no guarantee that an old bass will have 'that' tone either. You have to trust your ears.