great NEW student level American made basses

[Mike D.]

hey all,
I was just wondering of basses in this category. This would be instruments under $10 000.
2 American made basses I can think of are Uptons and New Standards. They are both NEW American made basses under the $10 000 price range.
I was just curious of the difference in prices:
Uptons sell Plywood basses at $2000-3000, New Standards sell Plywood basses at $4200-4400!
Uptons sell Hybrid basses at $2900-3900, New Standards sell Hybrid basses at $5750-5950!
Uptons sell Fully-Carved basses at $5000-6000, New Standards sell Fully-Carved basses STARTING at $7750!
I tried an Upton Hybrid 'import' bass a few months back and remember it was pretty suprising(in a good way of course) for the price; I imagine the new American-made ones sound much better still.
I've never tried an American Standard, but am curious to what the difference between these basses are. Are you getting more bass for your buck with a New Standard or what?
thanks in advance.
Mike

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

2 American made basses I can think of are Uptons and New Standards. They are both NEW American made basses under the $10 000 price range.

Are the New Standards made here in the USA?

[ctxbass]

Are you getting more bass for your buck with a New Standard or what?

My only point of comparison is that of my New Standard plywood bass and the Upton Hawkes hybrid (European, purchased for my son about two years ago).
My opinion comparing the two instruments is that the quality level of the New Standard bass is higher and well worth the higher price.
I purchased a New Standard plywood bass for my own use and would not classify it as "student grade". The quality of construction and set up of this instrument, as well as the sound, make this bass well suited for a working professional who prefers a plywood bass for either the durability or the tonal qualities associated with such an instrument.
I bought the Upton Hawkes hybrid for my son when he began college studies and needed an instrument with a suitable orchestral sound. His professor remarked that the bass was a good instrument for the price.

[D McCartney]

Originally Posted by drurb

Are the New Standards made here in the USA?

Mine says assembled , finished and set up in the USA of components made in Germany.

[MingusAmongUs]

Yes, the NS basses are molded in Germany, but assembled, set up and finished in the US of A.

They are priced on the higher end of the student range, but they are not "student grade" instruments. In my opinion, they are the Rolls Royce of laminated (or hybrid) instruments. They are designed to meet a specific market -- that of the broadway/jazz/bluegrass bassist who requires a roadworthy instrument with a big, full sound, that plays and feels like a great bass should. The pricing is not intended to compete with entry level basses, for good reason. There are no compromises made. I'm not suggesting that Upton cuts corners, but they are a different class of instrument geared for a different market than that of NS.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

Yes, the NS basses are molded in Germany, but assembled, set up and finished in the US of A.

They are priced on the higher end of the student range, but they are not "student grade" instruments. In my opinion, they are the Rolls Royce of laminated (or hybrid) instruments. They are designed to meet a specific market -- that of the broadway/jazz/bluegrass bassist who requires a roadworthy instrument with a big, full sound, that plays and feels like a great bass should. The pricing is not intended to compete with entry level basses, for good reason. There are no compromises made. I'm not suggesting that Upton cuts corners, but they are a different class of instrument geared for a different market than that of NS.

I'll ask the same of you. "...have you played one of the USA-made Upton lamis, hybrids, or Professors? If so, which one or ones? In particular, have you had your hands on one of the deluxe USA-made Upton Professors?" Why do you think an instrument like the deluxe Professor, at upwards of $6k, is geared to a different market than are the NS basses?

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by drurb

I'll ask the same of you. "...have you played one of the USA-made Upton lamis, hybrids, or Professors? If so, which one or ones? In particular, have you had your hands on one of the deluxe USA-made Upton Professors?" Why do you think an instrument like the deluxe Professor, at upwards of $6k, is geared to a different market than are the NS basses?

Again, I'm not out to bash anyone's product, but since you are asking, I will answer. I have played a USA made hybrid and IMO it is not at the same level of quality as the NS bass. There were some issues with the construction and setup that made it seem "cheap" to me. I haven't tried the "professor" so I can't comment on that. And as you have heard me say before, the sheer pizz volume -- actual, perceived, whatever -- just doesn't compare.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the fully carved Upton bass is not meant to be a road warrior. Maybe the fully carved NSes aren't either, but those are sort of a special order item I think, and not really advertised as part of the line like the professor is. I was really speaking to the laminate and hybrid models.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

Again, I'm not out to bash anyone's product, but since you are asking, I will answer. I have played a USA made hybrid and IMO it is not at the same level of quality as the NS bass. There were some issues with the construction and setup that made it seem "cheap" to me. I haven't tried the "professor" so I can't comment on that. And as you have heard me say before, the sheer pizz volume -- actual, perceived, whatever -- just doesn't compare.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the fully carved Upton bass is not meant to be a road warrior. Maybe the fully carved NSes aren't either, but those are sort of a special order item I think, and not really advertised as part of the line like the professor is. I was really speaking to the laminate and hybrid models.

Fair enough. Which of the Upton hybrids did you play? I would think that you'd have to compare the deluxe hybrid to the NS hybrid. The standard hybrid doesn't have the pretty veneers, as you may know. It would also be helpful if you could share what construction problems you thought made it "cheap." Were they actual goofs or just things you may not desire? For example, I know that the standard hybrid does not have the rolled edges. All of that aside, it is, after all, the sound that counts. If you are comparing apples to apples and you prefer the sound of the NS, then that's an opinion that is to be respected. For some of us though, it's not all about sheer pizz. volume.

[MingusAmongUs]

It was the standard, I believe, but I also played one last summer, before there was a distinction.

The endpin had not been properly fitted and was causing a loud rattling noise. The fingerboard was not applied properly and left a gap between the ebony and the neck, as well as a bit of overhang. As I understand these issues have since been corrected by Upton at no cost to the owner, but it seems like a bit of a QC oversight to me.

Also, the fingerboard on one of these basses has warped pretty severely after a month or two, so that there was a discernible curve in the plane.

** edit:
oh, and I am not taking looks or veneers into consideration here at all. only the feel, the play and the sound, as well as the overall build quality.

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by drurb

For some of us though, it's not all about sheer pizz. volume.

i dont think my comments can be boiled down to that but read into it what you like

[drurb]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

i dont think my comments can be boiled down to that but read into it what you like

I was referring to the only comment you made about the sound. No boiling down necessary-- it's all you said about that. Try again: "All of that aside, it is, after all, the sound that counts. If you are comparing apples to apples and you prefer the sound of the NS, then that's an opinion that is to be respected. For some of us though, it's not all about sheer pizz. volume."

[MingusAmongUs]

My review is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.talkbass.com/reviews/show...p/product/1185

more on the sound here:
The Requisite Bass Pr0n

It's a plywood bass so I'm not going to play in any symphony orchestras on it. But it's the best sounding plywood bass I've ever heard, bowed or plucked. Long sustain, plenty of growl, enough volume -- and control -- to handle any situation or dynamic, good fundamental, good mids, clear highs, perfect balance from string to string and from one end of the board to the other.

Here's a recording if you like to hear for yourself. I'm no engineer by any means so keep that in mind.

Single Mic at bridge
One at bridge, one at fingerboard

Half assed playing in both cases.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

My review is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.talkbass.com/reviews/show...p/product/1185

more on the sound here:
The Requisite Bass Pr0n

...

No doubt, the NS models are fine basses! That was never at issue. You, at least, have played samples of the two brands in question and have come reasonably close to an apples to apples comparison. On that basis, you have an informed preference. I respect your opinion. The only statement I questioned (and still do) was "I'm not suggesting that Upton cuts corners, but they are a different class of instrument geared for a different market than that of NS."

Given their upper end products, I don't think that is the case at all. You may not prefer them but they are, in fact, offering products geared for the same market with instruments of comparable class. It just happens to be the case that they are targeting a broader market by also supplying what truly are entry-level instruments.

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by drurb

Given their upper end products, I don't think that is the case at all. You may not prefer them but they are, in fact, offering products geared for the same market with instruments of comparable class. It just happens to be the case that they are targeting a broader market by also supplying what truly are entry-level instruments.

Fair enough, but the OP was comparing the entry level models with the NS, and that's what I was responding to.

[stflbn]

Student level bass under $10k?????



I'd consider a student level bass under $1k if even $1k.

[MingusAmongUs]

Originally Posted by stflbn

Student level bass under $10k?????



I'd consider a student level bass under $1k if even $1k.

We're in DB Land.
More wood, more $$.

[Uncletoad]

My NS Cleveland is a Pro instrument all the way. I've played many student level instruments, the best from Shen. The NS instruments are in a step above that.

I've not played anything from Upton. If they are student level basses they'd be comparable to Shen's bottom part of the line.

I'd check into the construction origin. I don't see how anyone can pay US labor to build something in a DB under $4K. Perhaps like the NS line the components are shipped in the white from elsewhere and finished in the states?

Regardless, we hardly make anything here completely in the states anymore including General Motors cars. I'm thinking that is an outdated sentiment unrealistic in todays marketplace.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I'd check into the construction origin. I don't see how anyone can pay US labor to build something in a DB under $4K. Perhaps like the NS line the components are shipped in the white from elsewhere and finished in the states?

Well then, take a trip to Stonington, CT. They sure are doing it. The lumber enters one end of the building and finished basses come out the other. You can watch them being built. Truth is, given the changes in the global economy, it is apparently not so financially advantageous to import.

Let me clarify something for any mischief makers. I have not made here, nor will I make here any evaluative comments regarding the Upton basses. My participation here was merely to point out that the target market of Upton and that of NS absolutely does overlap, the target market of the former being somewhat broader.

[Eric Swanson]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

hey all,
I was just wondering of basses in this category. This would be instruments under $10 000.
2 American made basses I can think of are Uptons and New Standards. They are both NEW American made basses under the $10 000 price range.
I was just curious of the difference in prices:
Uptons sell Plywood basses at $2000-3000, New Standards sell Plywood basses at $4200-4400!
Uptons sell Hybrid basses at $2900-3900, New Standards sell Hybrid basses at $5750-5950!
Uptons sell Fully-Carved basses at $5000-6000, New Standards sell Fully-Carved basses STARTING at $7750!
I tried an Upton Hybrid 'import' bass a few months back and remember it was pretty suprising(in a good way of course) for the price; I imagine the new American-made ones sound much better still.
I've never tried an American Standard, but am curious to what the difference between these basses are. Are you getting more bass for your buck with I see that this presents a geographical challenge. So work this Talkbass network and see who around you has a bass made by www.aesbass.com.a New Standard or what?
thanks in advance.
Mike

Mike,

I would respectfully submit that if you have already narrowed your choices to these two options, that making your own site visits to both shops might be time well spent. Since you have already played an Upton, you have made a start. But one can't compare without at least a second option. How can you compare your experience actually playing an Upton with heresay on another bass? Seems that you need to play a bass from AES Fine instruments, too.

I see that visiting NY presents a geographical challenge. So, perhaps you could work this Talkbass network and see who around you has a bass made by www.aesbass.com. We all want the best deal we can get, according to our needs. Sadly, nobody can tell anyone else what that will be for your needs.

if you truly are considering spending up to 10K, I would counsel taking your time, considering:
- Does it matter to you or not to have all components "produced" domestically? What about ebony from overseas? Should the lumber all be from certifiable, sustainably-harvested forests/vendors? What about spruce/maple/sycamore/etc. from other lands? Should the strings be made in one's hometown, too? What about using tools, equipment, or supplies from other countries? What about the fact that this is all originally coming from European culture and craft anyway? Is this even an ideological/political issue for you?
- What about the shape and pattern of the instruments? How playable do they feel, from the bottom E to the topmost C?
- How does the bass look, regarding fit and finish?
- How does the bass respond, with and without the bow, in all ranges?
- What are the makers' musical and luthiery backgrounds/experience/credentials?
- Who are their clientele?
- How long have they been in business?
- How much does any of this matter to you?

You have tried an Upton. So go try a New Standard or a La Scala.

Perhaps the folks at AES Fine Instruments can help you find a happy, Canadian customer (?).

See what you think. I'd love to hear your opinion!

Happy hunting,
Eric

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson

Mike,

I would respectfully submit that if you have already narrowed your choices to these two options...

Excellent advice Eric! As I said way back in post #6:

Originally Posted by drurb

I think that anyone considering either of these fine lines of basses should play them and decide for him/herself. I would not outright suggest one over the other.