Guitar and Pear-shaped basses

charliehack · #1 01-13-2007, 07:39 PM

hey all--

i've seen many pictures of 'cornerless' basses shaped somewhat like a pear. what is the deal with these, their history, origins, etc? what makes a pear model and what makes a guitar model, or are they the same thing? another thing i've noticed is that in looking at the double bass, raymond elgar has a bunch of these. interestingly, he barely has any busetto instruments shown. is that because guitar or pear basses are primarily italian, elgar's main focus in the book? the ones i have seen are beautiful instruments, and it seems like they would be very easy to play and very accessible because of the sloping shoulders. does anyone own one of the sort? pictures? thanks in advance for the clarification. cheers,

charlie

toman · #2 01-14-2007, 12:25 AM

I'd like to know more, too. I've seen some that are very nice looking construction wise, but the overall look has always seemed a little goofy to me. Maybe just becuase we don't see them around too often. Do these things have corner blocks, or just lining all the way around? I'd like to see the inside of one.

bribass · #3 01-14-2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliehack

hey all--

i've seen many pictures of 'cornerless' basses shaped somewhat like a pear. what is the deal with these, their history, origins, etc? what makes a pear model and what makes a guitar model, or are they the same thing? another thing i've noticed is that in looking at the double bass, raymond elgar has a bunch of these. interestingly, he barely has any busetto instruments shown. is that because guitar or pear basses are primarily italian, elgar's main focus in the book? the ones i have seen are beautiful instruments, and it seems like they would be very easy to play and very accessible because of the sloping shoulders. does anyone own one of the sort? pictures? thanks in advance for the clarification. cheers,

charlie

I've shared a stand in a bass section w/ Dennis Masuzzo who owns an Italian pear/guitar shaped bass. I think it's a fairly old copy of a really old one. It sounded great, but not all that loud atleast compared to my Prescott

.

I've seen Spanish basses w/ this shape as well.

Jeff Bollbach · #4 01-14-2007, 09:23 AM

I rec-Ken I don't have a good answer for this one.

kontrabass · #5 01-14-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bribass

I've shared a stand in a bass section w/ Dennis Masuzzo who owns an Italian pear/guitar shaped bass. I think it's a fairly old copy of a really old one. It sounded great, but not all that loud atleast compared to my Prescott

.

I've seen Spanish basses w/ this shape as well.

Dennis' bass can be seen on the back cover of his method book entitled Playing the Double Bass Tuned in Fifths. It's apparently a Vincenzo Lucarini, c.1833 and is quite beautiful.

Other interesting basses include Stefano Sciascia's bass, as well as Joel Quarrington's Inokuchi bass, which he uses for chamber works.

I'd love to hear more about their history. I've always been a sucker for cornerless basses.

sibass89 · #6 01-14-2007, 10:55 AM

Marji Danilow plays one that used to be owned by David Walter. It's a beautiful bass and is actually quite large. I've never played it but the size does not make it look like its the easiest bass to play, although I may be wrong.

basswraith · #7 01-14-2007, 11:57 AM

Funny that this thread came up. Here is a bass Im working on now, by Joseph Baldantoni 1820 Ancona Italy.
This bass sounds great....its just not easy to pick up or carry.

mrpc · #8 01-14-2007, 12:12 PM

I've always called these Ken Doll Basses.

TSP · #9 01-14-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kontrabass

Other interesting basses include Stefano Sciascia's bass

That one reminds me of the bass that Alberto Bocini is shown playing on the Bass Gang website (another shot here). Again, I don't know any more about it - Alberto did post here once, but that was in 2004; his username is 'alberto' if you want to try to rouse him.

mrpc · #10 01-14-2007, 12:24 PM

Lemur and also the String Emporium have some nice photos of these old instruments. I reckon you all know how to find them.

charliehack · #11 01-14-2007, 02:40 PM

the one that lemur sold a while ago is really cool, with a detachable neck. it's also in elgar's book.

http://lemurmusic.com/double_bass.asp?bass=82

interesting scroll on that one too-- is that a carved guy singing or screaming in pain? when they put it up for sale it was snatched up pretty quickly. neato. oh, and by the way, they REALLY need to change the little picture that is the link to the 'vintage and used instruments gallery'. it's a terrible shot of an old viennese bass, makes it look like a cheap laminated plywood job. matter of fact, they should change all of those little pictures. are you listening out there in TV-land, o lemur webmaster?

Ken McKay · #12 01-15-2007, 07:00 AM

I am building one now that looks similar to the one pictured in the Elgar book.

I am not putting corner blocks but will put some "crack stopper" cross braces in those places where the blocks would go. Nothing is too far off of "standard" except the bottom bout is about 26 inches wide (same as the one in the photo).

I will post it when done.

kontrabass · #13 01-15-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

I will post it when done.

When do you expect it to be finished? Can't wait to see some shots.

Ken McKay · #14 01-16-2007, 02:04 AM

2007 +- and hopefully before ISB in Oklahoma.

Englemann spruce top, Red Maple back/sides.

COUNT ZACULA · #15 01-16-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliehack

interestingly, he barely has any busetto instruments shown. is that because guitar or pear basses are primarily italian, elgar's main focus in the book?

I believe the busetto design is Italian as well.

bassist14 · #16 01-16-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COUNT ZACULA

I believe the busetto design is Italian as well.

i believe this too...
http://www.cozio.com/Instrument.aspx?id=1186

charliehack · #17 01-16-2007, 03:59 PM

ah, interesting. it must have just diffused north and east across europe then. elgar refers to the 'german model' with rounded lower rib corners. i was in austria last february and 99% of the orchestra players' basses were large 5 string busetto-cornered instruments.

Silversorcerer · #18 01-16-2007, 06:40 PM

On the history or these cornerless shapes, the oldest one I have been able to find is a Violone known as a Zenatto. It allegedly had strings 114 cm. long and is one of the oldest and largest existing violones. I have an old downloaded B&W photo from one of the links on Gollihur's DB links page on my desktop hard disk. If I find it later I'll post it. The Zenatto had high shoulders, but was definitely more pear shaped than guitar shaped. This shape predates the evolution of the Violone into the Double bass.

COUNT ZACULA · #19 01-16-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliehack

ah, interesting. it must have just diffused north and east across europe then. elgar refers to the 'german model' with rounded lower rib corners. i was in austria last february and 99% of the orchestra players' basses were large 5 string busetto-cornered instruments.

Pollmann's maybe? They seem to have a hard-on for making busettos.

bribass · #20 01-17-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSP

That one reminds me of the bass that Alberto Bocini is shown playing on the Bass Gang website (another shot here). Again, I don't know any more about it - Alberto did post here once, but that was in 2004; his username is 'alberto' if you want to try to rouse him.

Here's a " Spanish guitar" shaped one at Tobias Festl's World of Basses in Hamberg Germany
http://www.worldofbasses.de/Instrume...sh_guitar.html

BG