Has anyone ever heard of W. L. Lange Double Basses?

spalmer · #1 06-06-2011, 02:25 AM

Has anyone ever played/previously owned/or heard of a William L. Lange Double Bass? I am looking at one for sale on Wednesday and would like to hear opinions on the makers work etc. Its apparently a fully carved bass currently set up for Classical playing which i will most likely change to a more Jazz style set up for my needs.

I'm having a hard time finding anything on the internet. I know the bass was made in New York. On the inside of the bass an address of its birth is given "225-227 east twenty fourth street new york" written beneath the label. From what I have found on the net, he was active between 1920s-1940s. But I cannot find anything on him making Double Basses, only banjos!

Can anyone help me here? how much should one expect to pay for one of his basses and are they worth buying?

I have attached some photos..

Eric Swanson · #2 06-06-2011, 08:11 AM

Any other photos, other than the label and the bass diving into the rug?

If it is a carved bass, in decent shape, some luthier may have been working on it, from time to time. I would ask the seller where the bass has been serviced, contact the luthier, and ask them what they know/think about the instrument's background, health, etc.

If you would add some information to your profile, such as roughly where you live, we may be able to help a bit more, as well. Luthier recommendations, etc.

It is reasonable to ask to take a carved bass to a luthier, to get it checked out. Perhaps the seller will allow this.

Another thought is to take another person with you when you see/play the bass. Maybe somebody who plays well and/or knows about basses, a bit...

You could try registering, then asking over at Ken Smith's site; he knows a lot about the history of instruments, makers, and distributors. I would expect him to ask for more pictures, too.

Here is his site:

http://www.smithbassforums.com/

Eric Hochberg · #3 06-06-2011, 09:38 AM

My guess is that Lange was the importer and/or seller, not the maker, and I agree on contacting Ken Smith.

Stev187 · #4 06-06-2011, 11:02 AM

I agree with both Erics on both counts:

Lange was very famous banjo manufacturer (bought the Buckbee company and started Paramount), so it's very likely this was an import instrument with his label stuck inside, a very common practice back then. It seems highly unlikely that Lange or his factory was the maker.
Ken Smith's forum on German/Czech factory basses is a great place to ask about this one (with more pics); he's been very helpful to me to identify a couple of basses made during this time period. Here's the direct link:

German/Czech Shop Basses - Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

I am very interested to see more pictures of this bass; from what I can see, it is very similar to my bass, which was imported from Schönbach/Luby in the 1920s. It would be great if you could post more pictures.

--Steve

spalmer · #5 06-06-2011, 03:43 PM

okay thanks for your help guys, you've already put things into perspective for me. I had never thought of this bass being an import. And I have made an account on Ken Smiths forum, just waiting for it to be activated.
As for the pictures sorry but this is the only other one i got emailed, hopefully it is of help.
Btw, I live in Christchurch, New Zealand and I only made my profile very quickly last night, sorry. As for luithers in my area, I only really know of one guy and he is meant to be quite talented.
And for company on Wednesday my head of school who has played bass for a long time will be coming out to view the bass with me.

Now if the bass was an import, that would still put its manufacturing date to around 20s-40s, and being it fully carved it should have a rather mature sound right? 70years is a fair amount of time for a basses wood to age.
On another note, being it's potential origin europe, would the wood quality be more desirable ?
Also I see people talk about "factory made" basses in europe, i can understand plywood basses being mass produced etc, but is the same method applicable to a carved one? I guess I'm asking if I should expect it to be a roughly carved bass or one that has had corners cut etc.. and there's no chance of this being an import from china dating back that far right? or have Chinese basses been around longer than I thought.

thanks for all your help guys !

spoonido · #6 06-06-2011, 04:07 PM

I actually own two Lange banjos. Nice instruments, too. But the bass likely came from overseas.

Stev187 · #7 06-06-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spalmer

...and there's no chance of this being an import from china dating back that far right?

AFAIK, almost no chance. This bass almost certainly came from the "Bohemia" region of German/Czechoslovakia--do a search here on German factory/shop basses, and you will see.

Very limited info from the pics you have, but it's a flatback with violin corners, very similar shape to mine (see link above). Has hat peg tuners. Upon close inspection, you may find another label inside. I never noticed the very tiny "Made in Czechoslakia" label in mine until a year ago. A label like this could help you get closer to the date.

As far as the quality of the workmanship, shop/factory basses can really run the gamut. There were higher end models that got nice attention to detail (still not the work of a single craftsman), and others were roughed out. Some catalogs I have seen from the era sold different grades of quality instruments. Here's an example from a 1916 catalog from the US distributor of the instrument I have:

If at all possible, no matter what kind of instrument it is, you should have it looked at prior to purchase. A qualified luthier can tell you a great deal about the instrument by inspecting it.

--Steve

P.S. There are interesting threads here on the "aging" of wood and what happens to basses over time. Just remember that there was low-quality wood available back then, too. The age of the wood does not, in itself, tell you much of anything about its quality. The export market of the early 20th century was much like the exports of today; some very nice stuff coming out of China for the right price, and a fair amount of low-grade junk, too. It all depends.

spoonido · #8 06-06-2011, 08:20 PM

I'd like four #107s, a couple of #105s, and a half dozen of those #8 bows. Where do I send my check for $950?

chris1125 · #9 06-06-2011, 08:38 PM

No expert opinion here but personally that bass is quite a looker. Many Germans are those boring gamba shapes but this almost looks italian. If prices where still that low I would buy 100 bows (for the price of one) and give them out! I don't mean to be off topic here, but does anybody know the value of a real legitamate shop bow, let's say an Albert nurnberger back then?

Ben Mitchell · #10 06-06-2011, 08:48 PM

Keep in mind that was quite alot more money back then than it is now.

Stev187 · #11 06-07-2011, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassMaster65

Keep in mind that was quite alot more money back then than it is now.

Um, yeah. That catalog is from 1915-1916. Use the CPI to index those prices to inflation, and the $170 bass would be about $3,785. You can calcluate the other prices yourself if you're interested:

CPI Inflation Calculator

--Steve

nicechuckh · #12 06-08-2011, 12:05 PM

Whatever the bass is it looks really nice from the pics. They should have a sale one day a year when they revert to 1915 prices huh?

spoonido · #13 06-08-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicechuckh

They should have a sale one day a year when they revert to 1915 prices huh?

But of course! But we'd likely have to pay with these...

spalmer · #14 06-10-2011, 02:46 AM

So I went and viewed the bass on Wednesday (sorry for the late reply guys) and I have decided that the bass is not for me.
The bass had its merits, but is no good for jazz atm. It also had some minor cracks that concerned me, one notable one was on the bottom right of the top (although a reasonable repair job had been done on it).
When I played it, it had a nice loud sound, but its tone was rather dead and dull.
I tried very hard to find another label on the inside regarding its origin, but could not! :/
Thank you all for you help in educating me on this bass even though it didn't work out. I have learned a lot. Now I think I will be going with plan B (unless a nice bass is for sale locally soon) which is ordering a bass from Upton, and I have heard nothing but good things about them so hopefully it works out