Help a bass guitar brother out with this kay...

jsingles · #1 07-23-2008, 08:33 AM

I have come across an upright bass which my friend has lent to me (he doesnt play, but it was taking up space at his house, so I borrowed it to check it out)

I play bass guitar but know absolutely NOTHING about upright bass

anyway, this thing is a severely beaten up Kay, and as it really is not mine, I am not willing to put copious amounts of money into this thing... yet I still wonder if there is anything simple I can do to it to make it perform better/clean it up a bit.

One of the tuning pegs has been completely snapped off... So I would consider that the biggest issue... the action is (what I think to be) a little high... the strings buzz at the bridge occasionally... the lower strings barely resonate at all... I think it probably needs new strings but those cost a bit much for me to buy for this thing... It really is pretty damn beaten.

I was hoping to be able to use this bass as a little experimental flirt with upright bass, without having to actually buy one, but I am not so sure that is practical with this particular instrument.

I know I am not being very specific, but I am not educated in the world of upright... is this instrument perhaps usable even for just little fun tinkering

I will take some picture of it and then upload them here soon. Thanks!

jsingles · #2 07-23-2008, 08:46 AM

Pictures!

drurb · #3 07-23-2008, 09:09 AM

At a minimum, this bass needs a new tuning key, a new set of strings and a new bridge. The shims under the bridge sure aren't helping the string height issue. (We don't say "action" on this side of the board.)

It does not look so badly beaten up at all. Barring other problems, if you take it to a luthier, it would cost you a few hundred bucks to put it in good shape. A few pictures of the neck heel (where the neck meets the body) would be good as this is a notorious trouble spot (Achilles heel?) for Kays. Given the price that Kays are commanding, if you spent the bucks and then didn't want to continue, then your friend could sell the bass for a nice sum and easily give you back your investment. You might also consider giving him a fair price for it and then going forward from there.

If you do a search of the threads here, then you will find a boatload pertaining to EB players switching to DB. Successfully switching is not a trivial matter at all. You may want to consider this before you go down the road to the dark side.

Ed Fuqua · #4 07-23-2008, 09:25 AM

See how interested your friend is in hanging onto the bass. If he IS - tell him you want to put some money into it to get it into a playable state, but you want him to underwrite at least some of the cost (you should also be willing to underwrite part since he ain't charging you rent for the thing, right?).

If he ISN'T - ask him how much he wants to sell it for. You don't really want to pay more than $1K for it in the condition it's in.

Now with either scenario, here's the good news - if you sink the kind of money D-RUB is talking about into it, the bass will sell for upwards of $1800 (if not more, there's a Kay on this board that has some excellent work by Arnold Schnitzer that's going for about $3K). So either way, putting money into this bass is a Good Idea.

MingusAmongUs · #5 07-23-2008, 09:40 AM

Ditto on what drurb said. To go into more detail: the bridge issues alone may account for the lack of sound, especially on the bottom end. the shims (whatever they're made of) are definitely stopping a lot of the sound from transferring, and as small as it may seem, the missing bridge wing on the e string side would explain the lack of oomph in the lower strings. And of course, you'll need to replace that tuner if you want to tune that string.

If I were you, I'd take it to a luthier (several good ones in the Boston area) and just get their opinion on whether it's worth fixing up or not. Most likely it is, but as mentioned, it will be a minor investment.

Luthier list here

Also, Jed Kriegel is a new transplant from Arnold Schnitzer's shop. Highly recommended.
978-270-9042
jedkriegel (at) yahoo (dot) com

More info here.

Jed: contact Bob G and get your name on his list!

Bass Barrister · #6 07-23-2008, 09:57 AM

My suggestion is to take the bass to a competent bass luthier and obtain an estimate of the cost involved in putting the bass in playing conidtion. A set of Helicore bass strings can be purchased from Bob G. for about $100US and you will often find good slightly used strings on our classifieds. The original Kluson tuners are no longer made but "new old stock" sometimes comes up on ebay and some luthiers will have spare parts from scrapped tuners

BTW, what model of Kay is it and how od is the bass? There should be a label inside. Kay made three basic models: C, M, and S - the S models (S-1,8,9) ave ebony FBs and fittings and are most desirable but other models can also be good.

My personal advice - YMMV. A new Englehardt (successor company to Kay) will run from $1000-$1400 without setup. Assuiming the bass is otherwise structually sound, I'd buy the bass for $700 and put $700 into getting it fixed up. If you find you don't want it, it will probably sell for $1800 and up.

Jake deVilliers · #7 07-23-2008, 10:09 AM

You've received some great advice. Also, get a teacher to help with DB technique - it ain't the same as slab.

I'd say the fact that the bridge is on the soundpost is what's killing the bottom end.

I think taking the shims out from under the feet and moving the bridge forward until there's about 1/2" between the strings and the fingerboard would really help but not if you let the soundpost fall.

jsingles · #8 07-23-2008, 10:16 AM

thanks for the advice everyone! I will think about my options here...

I will also try to figure out what model this is...

Edit: It says C-1 on the inside, 56671 is the serial number. I have NO clue how old this is...

as far as the shims go, should i just go ahead and loosen the strings, and then remove the shims? or is this a bad idea for somebody like me to be doing?

hdiddy · #9 07-23-2008, 10:55 AM

Since this is your first DB excursion, I'd probably let the lutheir remove the shims. It's an easy task but you have to watch out for the lack of tension on the top which may cause the sound post to fall. If it falls you're screwed and you need the lutheir to put it back into place. I suppose you could do it yourself by laying the bass flat on it's back and removeing all the tension and the shims and put the bridge back up. But if you hear a clunk during that process, you now know what happened. Putting a bridge on without a soundpost is a very bad idea and could cause alot of damage. I would probably wait on the shims until you get the new strings and do it all at the same time.

Other than the broken tuning key, everything looks fine. Are there any wood chips on the bottom? Any cracks anywhere on the body?

MT Spaces · #10 07-23-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsingles

.... It says C-1 on the inside, 56671 is the serial number. I have NO clue how old this is...

That Kay is 1968. They quit making them in 1969. That is actually quite a nice Kay (I have two). Neck heel doesn't look cracked or in bad shape at all. Yessirree .... See a luthier ..... new adj. bridge, new strings, check fingerboard "scoop", set up (or new) soundpost, Clef tailgut cord ...... and you may have a real sweetheart there. Check with Jerry Fretwell at http://www.fretwellbass.com .... He deals with a whole lotta Kays and may have a Kluson tuner banging around in some drawer

. Look at his prices for nice Kays

.... But don't tell your friend what it might be worth

.

jsingles · #11 07-23-2008, 12:12 PM

hah i just now noticed how horribly bent the bridge is... yea it totally needs to be replaced... I wont attempt any repairs on this myself. I probably wont be able to acquire this bass for myself

, but I still find it very interesting... I hope to be able to get into DB at some point when I can manage to get one :|

thanks so much for all the advice though guys, the mystery of this bass has been solved! I will do my best to see it repaired and in working condition.

PS, the bridge does appear to be right on top of the soundpole...whoever put the shims under/setup this bridge might not have had a clue what they were doing...

ctregan · #12 07-23-2008, 02:30 PM

The bass could also use a good dusting!

Tejano Bass · #13 07-23-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

That Kay is 1968. They quit making them in 1969. That is actually quite a nice Kay (I have two). Neck heel doesn't look cracked or in bad shape at all. Yessirree .... See a luthier ..... new adj. bridge, new strings, check fingerboard "scoop", set up (or new) soundpost, Clef tailgut cord ...... and you may have a real sweetheart there. Check with Jerry Fretwell at http://www.fretwellbass.com .... He deals with a whole lotta Kays and may have a Kluson tuner banging around in some drawer . Look at his prices for nice Kays .... But don't tell your friend what it might be worth .

+1 on What Bob K said above - sound advice - he knows of what he speaks . . . you could come out smelling like a rose if you play your cards right . . .

Johnny Atomic · #14 07-23-2008, 03:05 PM

If you think that's a severely beat up kay, you never seen many kays. that's a really nice looking kay. MUCH better than most. that tailpiece logo is the last style right before they quit making them.

Johnny

Bass · #15 07-23-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Atomic

...that's a really nice looking kay...

+1 real nice!

hublocker · #16 07-23-2008, 04:09 PM

That bass in in awesome shape.

Jeez!

Buy it!

A good bass luthier could fix that up easy.

Too bad you're not in Vancouver. Gerard would have that instrument humming for you in no time.

Phil Rowan · #17 07-23-2008, 05:27 PM

Get thee to a qualified luthier.

jsingles · #18 07-23-2008, 07:11 PM

wow lol, i half expected everyone to say this was a worthless piece of junk!

I don't think I will be able to convince the owner to sell, nor do I currently have funds to purchase this (damn college....)

I will regret returning this to the owner haha.... for the first time in my life I actually really want to play upright! guess this just isn't the right time for me to start.

drurb · #19 07-23-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsingles

I have come across an upright bass which my friend has lent to me (he doesnt play, but it was taking up space at his house, so I borrowed it to check it out)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsingles

I don't think I will be able to convince the owner to sell...

Hmm. Does not compute. Does it hold some sentimental value to him?

jsingles · #20 07-23-2008, 09:16 PM

haha well i got it from my friend dan, but as it turns out, he actually seems to have inherrited it from his high school, which has no program for upright bass, and doesnt use it. Thus... my friend is free to use it... but obviously this does not give him the right to sell it, as technically it is school property..

as a bassist, this makes me very sad....

If my friend gives it back, it will just sit in a closet at the school for years.. and theres no way it will be restored

. if dan keeps it, it will sit in HIS house and do precisely the same thing.

I would love to restore it!, but as this is costly.. it would not make sense for me to do this unless I actually OWNED IT. But I can actually only "borrow" it.

It really aggrivates me :| I would love to make use of this beautiful thing and learn upright bass! (because god knows its not easy for a college student to just go out and buy one...) But it looks like this one is doomed to stay in the shape it is in, and be locked away for years..... AHHG!