Help with Bass Purchasing

BrianS198 · #1 03-07-2011, 05:36 PM

Hi everyone!

Someone recently posted on craiglist with an ad showing a fully-carved upright bass that is approximately 100 years old or so (early 20th century). He was asking for $800, so I figured I'd give it a look.

Anyway, I saw it today and there were obviously a few problems.

1. The heel of the neck has a crack in it. It probably goes down the side a half-inch tops, but he told me that the crack has been there a long time and hasn't progressed any furthur.

2. The soundpost has fallen so that would need to be reset.

3. The action is TERRIBLE and it's strung with old, gut strings. I have some Bel Cantos I could put on it though.

4. The seam between the two back-pieces (I'm not sure what they're called) might be coming apart; however, I think it's been patched already.

5. One side of the scroll is knocked off. In general, the head bad.

That being said, the bass has several cracks that have been fixed in the past so it's definitely seen a life. But, I feel like this bass might be an awesome buy.

1. The shoulders are very broad and the back has a slight incline towards the top (Much like this bass, but with broader shoulders: http://www.kensmithbasses.com/doublebasses/dodd/) which makes me believe that this is an old English bass.

2. The tuners feel like butter despite it's neglect. It just feels awesome.

3. It's a very old bass with a lot of rich history.

4. It's only $800 for a fully-carved bass..

I don't know enough about upright basses to make a valid decision; however, I figured you guys would. I already own a K.C. Strings 3/4 fully-carved bass that I like, but I feel like this bass may be a much better bass after some work. Should I go for it or not?

Here's the listing if you're interested:

http://wichita.craigslist.org/msg/2231490585.html

arnoldschnitzer · #2 03-07-2011, 05:40 PM

That is a "blockless wonder" made in Germany early in the 20th century. Not English. These can be great basses but are prone to misery because of the way they were built. At that price your downside is very limited. Good luck...

BrianS198 · #3 03-07-2011, 05:52 PM

So you're saying that these basses are prone for repair, but with such a low price tag, I don't have much to lose?

chris1125 · #4 03-07-2011, 07:31 PM

Man for $800 you should have bought it yesturday! Slap a bridge an some new strings on that bass (by a professional luthier) and your good to go! I would be all over that if I lives anywhere near there!

BrianS198 · #5 03-07-2011, 07:45 PM

I definitely agree Chris! However, I'm in college (bleh) and I want to know that this is going to be a purchase with some return (Meaning that it's a bass that would blow me away). I mean, I would love to get it just as much as the next person; however, if it isn't a deal that I can't find again, I'm not so sure I can justify purchasing it now.

Bass Barrister · #6 03-07-2011, 07:57 PM

If your soundpost has fallen, I'd take any tension off those strings ASAP. The bridge will fall but it probably needs a reset anyway.

For $800, probably not much to lose. Once you get it though, have a good DB luthier (or two) check it out and give you a quote on repairs. Start saving yur shekels - cheap it will not be.

Eric Hochberg · #7 03-07-2011, 08:03 PM

Before laying out any money you need to take it to a double bass luthier and get repair estimates. Could be a little, could be a lot. The seller should let you do this, or bring it himself and you meet him. Will the bass be worth what you put in to it or more? Do you have the money to invest in it? Key questions.

BrianS198 · #8 03-07-2011, 08:28 PM

I completely agree. I'd take it to a local luthier to get a quote on how much it would cost to fix everything up.

I just have a lot of factors to consider (I need to purchase a rack, an amp case, and a combo amp because I may be doing student exchange.) for the next few months so I definitely don't want to make stupid purchases.

PaulCannon · #9 03-08-2011, 12:54 AM

The neck will be need to be reset. The projection on the fingerboard looks very low and I suspect the neck crack will only make that worse. That's not a cheap operation (perhaps $1000 depending on the shop), but if you're lucky that will be the worst of it. Sound posts, bridges, open seams etc. are all relatively cheap work.

I'd see this as a $2000+ purchase. The repair work will have to be done to make it playable.

arnoldschnitzer · #10 03-08-2011, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

The neck will be need to be reset.

Actually, you cannot reset these necks because there is no neck block. To modernize the bass it needs a neck block and a graft. It will cost many $thousands, unless a neck block was already fitted in the past. There is a chance it could be played without that work, though. Personally, I don't think this is a good project for a college student, although the price is tempting.

crowsmengegus · #11 03-08-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Actually, you cannot reset these necks because there is no neck block. To modernize the bass it needs a neck block and a graft. It will cost many $thousands, unless a neck block was already fitted in the past. There is a chance it could be played without that work, though. Personally, I don't think this is a good project for a college student, although the price is tempting.

Listen to Mr. Schnitzer, to say that he is an expert would be an understatement.

That said, here is my counterpoint: buy the thing because it's only $800. At the very least, somebody else can take it off your hands for the same price. I think that even if this bass has major issues (like no neck block, integral bass bar or other bad things), it is worth $800.

A restoration might cost 5k+ and drastically change the way that it sounds and plays, but if you like it "as is", then you could at least consider your options for restoration. Just don't sink a lot of money into it before that....

chris1125 · #12 03-08-2011, 01:15 PM

Definately... If you didn't have a lot of money to put into it I would check to see if it needed neck work or needed a repair that would take the top off. Both of these things would cost into the thousands. If it doesn't need either of these things, you would still need a sounpost reset, new strings and most likely a new bridge. This along with seem repairs and general maintenance would probobly run a few hundred dollars but I would still be well worth it to get a bass like this for around $1500. That's why you should get it and then get it to a luthier. Worse case scenario and it needs a lot of work I doubt you would have any trouble selling it and breaking even.

crowsmengegus · #13 03-08-2011, 03:39 PM

Another thing: you linked to a bass by Dodd, and as Arnold already pointed out, this one is not even closely related. It's much closer to this:
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double.../tyrolean.html

There's a number of people who have run into these things unrestored in the past, see many threads:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...less+wonder%22

A question for Arnold or other lurking luthiers: if this thing needed the works to bring it up to modern standards, a neck block, a neck graft, a bass bar, about how much could one expect to spend on all that?

Jason Sypher · #14 03-08-2011, 04:31 PM

I think you are all very optimistic about the cost of restoring this bass and I assure you it would end up being a full restoration. I put the cost at closer to 5k. Still, it would probably be worthwhile but you have no idea what it will sound like.

BrianS198 · #15 03-08-2011, 05:15 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'd REALLY like to buy it and like you said, worst-case scenario, I could always sell it back to someone for $800. Unfortunately, it doesn't make much sense with my current budget because there are a few things I must purchase soon in addition to saving money for my study abroad trip in the near future.

Good news is, he's going to take it to a local luthier (Not sure when) and get an estimate on repairs.

Any idea on what this bass could be worth after a restoration?

BrianS198 · #16 03-08-2011, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowsmengegus

Another thing: you linked to a bass by Dodd, and as Arnold already pointed out, this one is not even closely related. It's much closer to this:
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/double.../tyrolean.html

There's a number of people who have run into these things unrestored in the past, see many threads:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...less+wonder%22

A question for Arnold or other lurking luthiers: if this thing needed the works to bring it up to modern standards, a neck block, a neck graft, a bass bar, about how much could one expect to spend on all that?

Yeah, wow. This bass looks practically the same to me.

chris1125 · #17 03-08-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianS198

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'd REALLY like to buy it and like you said, worst-case scenario, I could always sell it back to someone for $800. Unfortunately, it doesn't make much sense with my current budget because there are a few things I must purchase soon in addition to saving money for my study abroad trip in the near future.

Good news is, he's going to take it to a local luthier (Not sure when) and get an estimate on repairs.

Any idea on what this bass could be worth after a restoration?

It's good that he's taking I to a luthier who could give you a straight answer!

TroyK · #18 03-09-2011, 10:42 AM

There may be a more technically correct answer to what it might be worth, but a factor that you know better than us is what is worth in your town/area. If you wanted to sell it, how big is the market of people that might buy it? How many other choices do they have? Are they the type who want to spend more for a fine instrument or are they looking at the ebay deals or a plywood beater to play outdoors?

Regardless of what the value might be somewhere else, the real value is what could YOU sell it for. You probably have some idea of that based on shops and things there. If there is a good bass shop, ask them what sells in what price range and how long does it take to move something like that? A month? A year?

Personally, I wouldn't buy it as an investment unless I was a luthier (which I'm not). I would only start into something like this if I thought that there was a good chance of being a good instrument for me.

But, like I said, someone will have a more accurate answer as to what basses like this sell for. I just advise you to take that answer and then apply the lens of your regional market.