Help!....double bass to acoustic bass guitar.

Paul Warner · #1 09-09-2009, 12:49 PM

The onset of rheumatoid arthritis is currently preventing me from playing my double bass. My `folky` friends have suggested I buy an acoustic bass guitar so that I can continue playing with them. Advice, commentary and/or recommendations would be very helpful as I know nothing about these instruments, their qualities, drawbacks, etc., or even whether this is likely to work for me at any level.
Thanks...hopefully.

Gary Lynch · #2 09-09-2009, 01:33 PM

I play them (fretless). There are very few if any good ones being made on an assembly line. I find I like a more curved fingerboard and more scoop than any of the pop outs being built. The problem with many is you can't even have your luthier work the fingerboard because of inlays and binding. I think most of the assembly line factory pop out builders do not know how to make a real playable unit that a season player would like. Many have flat fingerboards! Sure you can goof around on the low cost pop outs but as far as a pro unit goes.............they lack

There are custom bass guitars being built that are great. But the cost is way up there. It depends how professional and what your demands are. Even the finest ones do not have much volume unplugged. That is to say up against a five piece band or even a banjo picking maniac.

Check the bass guitar Esperanza Spalding plays.

My 2 cents.............

MIKMAN · #3 09-09-2009, 01:38 PM

Hi Paul
i'm 50 years old and having the same problem i absolutely understand you. If the problem is in your left hand the acoustic bass is a solution, since it requires less strength and less physical effort. I'd suggest you a fretless one, which has more similarities with the DB's fingerboard. Ibanez produces a decent one, with a normal cost. The only problem with acoustic basses is the feedback noise, when you need enormous volume. It can be addressed though, and for details we can discuss it.
Thomman has some acoustic basses in its inventory, some decent, some not so, but you can have some ideas surfing its site.
If the problem has affected your right hand, well, things are only slightly better with the acoustic bass, since it needs plucking , which can be also tiresome (and sometimes painful). Anyway, it also needs less effort, so IMHO try it as an alternative.
The fact remains that the acoustic's sound is not the unique sound of the DB, but something remotely similar. Try it and if you can live with this compromise, well, let it be.
Mike

shadygrove · #4 09-09-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Lynch

... Even the finest ones do not have much volume unplugged...

Yep.

I have a Takamine EG512 fretted acoustic bass guitar. Great for practicing and jamming with up to two acoustic guitars and maybe a quiet fiddle or mando. Anything beyond that it gets buried fast. Currently using it as a backup to my DB, but only play it plugged in. Sounds pretty good with flatwound strings, I hated the tone with 80/20 Martin roundwounds. Way too much string and fret noise and higher frequency overtones not to mention abrasiveness on the fingers.

Is this a strictly acoustic jam? or would they be OK with you playing through an amp? If an amps OK, I'd just get a solid body EB or hollow body style like an Ibanez artcore or Epi Casady as they're more versatile and easier to play IMO than the size of flat top ABG you need to get any decent volume.

wehateyourhate · #5 09-09-2009, 02:06 PM

something like the takamine tb10 acoustic bass might be the ticket?

its hopefully small enough scale to accommodate your injury, and sounds like a real upright (sorta kinda)?

Marcus Johnson · #6 09-09-2009, 03:35 PM

I've always been intrigued by Tobias Chennell's "Arco Bass", a smallish fretless acoustic instrument that can be played upright and bowed, or played on your lap like a BG. Google it...

If you want something more guitarish and affordable... one of my students has a couple of Tacoma Thunderchief ABGs.... they're very nice.

Bijoux · #7 09-09-2009, 03:47 PM

I have RA, and I've had it for about almost 20 years. I know RA affect people in many different ways and many different levels. I pay much attention to my diet, exercise and sleep, and stress levels, and all I can say is that I have an almost "normal" life and I play my upright with no problems and I haven't missed a gig in the last 5 years. Maybe I am just lucky, but I do pay very close attention especially to my diet, I read a lot about RA, and I have accomplished this life style with no meds.
Good luck to you.

arnoldschnitzer · #8 09-09-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warner

The onset of rheumatoid arthritis is currently preventing me from playing my double bass.

Paul, my wife has had RA for about ten years. People don't realize that it's a serious auto-immune disease and can be devastating. Fortunately, the new wonder drugs are amazing, though incredibly expensive.

Every so often I get a new client with strength, age or arthritis issues, for whom I do what I call my "arthritis set-up". In essence, it involves dressing the fingerboard with almost no camber (scoop), setting the nut and bridge as low as possible, installing light strings (solo strings tuned to concert pitch) and a pickup. The result is a bass that a toddler could play. It won't put out as much sound, but that's why there's a pickup. I'd hate to see you give up on our noble instrument!

Perhaps the best idea would be to get out of the damp, chilly U.K. and head down under, or perhaps to Barbados...

Rvl · #9 09-09-2009, 06:34 PM

I have similar problems with my hands (my solution is to keep a bucket of ice next to my bass and plunge my hand in between songs)
I really hope to find a luthier of Arnold Schnitzer's caliber in Japan , but most luthiers here dont have any idea what a "arthritis setup" is

I have 4 acoustic basses
I find the Tacoma is good, but it is a big body and it can be prone to feedback because the top is so thin. The lightest strings I have found are nylon wound by Status in England (strings and shipping are quite reasonable). Rick Turner Rennaisance basses are also good(I use one) .Some of the Korean or Chinese acoustics are ok but the piezo and preamps in them tend to be clacky and not very warm( I have a Korean one , its one with f holes which is a little rare but I like the way it looks)

The other option is EUB
I have been using one and with a stand
That has helped BUT I still have problems with the fingerboard not having the correct scoop on it
Avoid eub's with painted maple boards(mine) putting a fingerboard scoop looks messy

Thanks

Robert VanLane

Pentabass · #10 09-09-2009, 07:05 PM

Another option would be to consider the Ashbory Bass.
Together with good amplification (no feedback issues) you get an amazing sound from those soft silicone strings on the fretless neck. In terms of gentle on the hands, this 18 inch string length can't be beaten.

Yes, I know it would not look and feel the same, but I wonder if you might find a way to let all the musical experience that you have, reach your friends again, this time through a completely different final pathway?

Steve Killingsworth · #11 09-10-2009, 11:32 AM

I owned a Copley ABG for a while and found it to be the worst of both worlds-virtually no acoustic volume, poor tone, and more difficult than an EBG to play. I did play a Thunderchief at Gruhn Guitars that sounded better but just couldn't compete in a non-amplified environment.

If I were in your shoes, I would be looking seriously at an electric upright with light strings and a good but lightweight amp.

D McCartney · #12 09-10-2009, 12:16 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitarr%C3%B3n_mexicano Perhaps a guitarron?

Paul Warner · #13 09-10-2009, 12:49 PM

Thanks everyone. Regretfully the RA is is both hands and hips at present so I don`t yet know where the horizon is!
I will follow up on your suggestions.

pnchad · #14 09-10-2009, 08:49 PM

same or smiilar issues here. RA in right arm/hand/shoulder.
But I played too hard for years, pounding away at 250+ bpm.
Worst thing is the nerve damage in the outside edge of the right index from pulling which then radiates all the way up the arm.

This is an occupational hazard. Mingus' hands were mangled claws.

With the right RA setup, light strings, more Clarke than Brown teechnic I can see a possibility.

Good luck - just the thought of bagging it permanently is shilling.

TheSuzie · #15 09-11-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Every so often I get a new client with strength, age or arthritis issues, for whom I do what I call my "arthritis set-up". In essence, it involves dressing the fingerboard with almost no camber (scoop), setting the nut and bridge as low as possible, installing light strings (solo strings tuned to concert pitch) and a pickup. The result is a bass that a toddler could play. It won't put out as much sound, but that's why there's a pickup. I'd hate to see you give up on our noble instrument!

I hope nobody will shoot me for this but have you considered trying weedwacker strings. I am looking at these because they may be my only hope for playing DB at this point. If your stretch and range of motion is a problem, maybe even a well set up 1/2 size or 1/4 size bass with the appropriate weedwacker strings.

Best of Luck,
S

Steve Swan · #16 09-11-2009, 08:37 AM

I came up with this set of modifications to a standard solidbody bass guitar to give a short note length and fundal-oriented tone. What doesn't work in trying to simulate pizz doublebass response with a soldibody electric bass guitar is sustain and too much harmonic complexity in the tone. I use the bottom 4 strings of a 5 string set of flatwound strings with a foam rubber mute near the bridge. Wearing the bass pretty high on my chest, I pretend that the fifth fret is the nut and play the string with the fleshy part of my thumb as close to halfway along the string length as possible. The result is a response that is pretty close to an amplified doublebass with gut strings. This works so well that I've had a custom bass made with a 25 1/2" string length. I don't have to carry around the extra 8 1/2" of neck now. This setup is very easy on my left hand when tendinitis flareups happen. It's not a complete substitute for playing a doublebass, but it's far better than not playing at all.

RustyAxe · #17 09-11-2009, 10:59 AM

I play double bass, but also electric "slab" and acoustic bass guitars. My acoustic is a Tacoma Thunderchief ... a great one. Watch for a "full scale" ... 34" ... model. Good acoustic basses can be had from Martin, Taylor, Tacoma (when you can find one), Breedlove (some nice new imports are out now). I've played many others (Fender, Ibanez, Michael Kelly) that didn't pass muster ... either the tone was dead, the scale too short, or they were cheaply built. You might be interested in a fretless, but they never attracted me (but one of my electrics is a Fender Jazz fretless). Some like flat wound strings (I do on my electrics) but I find round wounds more to my liking on the Tacoma. For extra thump I sometimes damp the strings with some foam rubber at the bridge.

Playing in an acoustic ensemble, you'll not get the volume of a double bass, and you might want to drop a few coins for a small practice amp. I'm partial to the Ampeg BA112 (small, light, has a line out, sweet tone, and a nice price) but there are others for more dough that sound as good or better.

TheSuzie · #18 09-11-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

This works so well that I've had a custom bass made with a 25 1/2" string length. I don't have to carry around the extra 8 1/2" of neck now. This setup is very easy on my left hand when tendinitis flareups happen. It's not a complete substitute for playing a doublebass, but it's far better than not playing at all.

Wow, I like this idea. This is something I may try for myself for the short term till i figure out what may or may not work longer term.

SLivinghouse · #19 09-16-2009, 12:36 PM

Hey,
If in the end you need to switch to ABG, it can be a really fun instrument to play. I bought a used cheap, I think $125, Amigo ABG maybe 7 years ago and love it. Most fun per dollar ever spent (not that I don't like my DB better, but is cost 20 times as much.) I had to clean up the frets and adjust the truss rod to make it more playable, but actually it sounds really good. I've been cranking through the Bach Cello Suites - Josquin des Pres book -on them and have a great time.

Also, recently played a Boulder Creek Guitars ABG about $7-800 and thought it was the best one I played (I've tried most of the ones mentioned above). It has a sound hole on the top since the vast majority of the time you play you are playing for your own pleasure. Check one out before you buy since it sounds quite different than the rest. The cheap one I have is on the link below.
Good luck
Steve

http://www.amazon.com/Amigo-Acoustic.../dp/B0002IHEUY

Dave Irwin · #20 09-17-2009, 05:58 PM

Lots of bottom and a great conversation piece. Only downside is the sometimes messy talcom powder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pentabass

Another option would be to consider the Ashbory Bass.
Together with good amplification (no feedback issues) you get an amazing sound from those soft silicone strings on the fretless neck. In terms of gentle on the hands, this 18 inch string length can't be beaten.

Yes, I know it would not look and feel the same, but I wonder if you might find a way to let all the musical experience that you have, reach your friends again, this time through a completely different final pathway?