Help Identify

aks_29 · #1 12-06-2009, 08:00 PM

I went to a local luthier a few weeks ago and played this bass that sounded amazing. I wasn't really thinking of getting a new bass, but now I'm really tempted.

My only reservation is that the bass isn't what they claim it is and that I'll be paying too much for it.

I was hoping Talkbass could take a look and help me to identify the bass.

I took a bunch of pictures and put them on Flickr...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45340352@N06/

Thanks,
Alex

aks_29 · #2 12-09-2009, 01:30 PM

can anyone help me?

LouisF · #3 12-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Well... let's try this: what do they claim it is and how much are they asking for it?

LF

aks_29 · #4 12-09-2009, 05:19 PM

They told me it's around a hundred years old and made in germany. They're asking 10 000 for it.

Carl Johnson · #5 12-09-2009, 07:20 PM

Doesn’t look that old to me –
Few dings of any kind, usually there’s at least a generous amount of nicks from both being bowed and where it’s laid on its side.
No cracks on the top or the back or the sides.
New fat fingerboard
Recent finish and kind of sloppy at that
Could be an extremely well preserved example that has been lately stripped and finished, who knows… Sound and health is all that really matter in the end.

LouisF · #6 12-09-2009, 07:24 PM

$10K - US or Canadian (@ $9400 US) seems PRETTY steep for what it is - UNLESS it sounds fantastic. I agree above that if it is a early 1900s German bass its been reworked - not in itself a bad thing. My vote would have been for a Hungarian or Romanian copy.

Is there a label inside?
LF

aks_29 · #7 12-09-2009, 07:53 PM

There's no label.

The story that I heard about this luthier is that they tried to sell a bass to a bassist at my school. They claimed it was a hundred year old italian bass. He took it to another, more reputable luthier and was told that it was a 15 year old Romanian bass.

I went back today to ask more questions about it. The guy couldn't/wouldn't tell me anything except that it's an old german bass close to 100 years old and that it's very good.

EJ_Dad · #8 12-09-2009, 10:32 PM

Picture 195 shows the 1/4 round lining. That, the neck button, back of the scroll, the shape and the color, sure looks like my Musima/Eberle carved from the early 1990's. It also looks like some mid 50's Rubners. There are some Rubner pictures on the web.

It probably is an East German bass because of the 1/4 round lining (mule (sp) joint) as this is the Russian style. It is unlikely that it is older than 1945. You might check out the history of the music industry in Machnekirkin (sp) to see when they restarted production after WW-II.

Also look at the EuropeanBassesOnline site. The Eberle picture there is a ply bass.

Gponyy · #9 12-10-2009, 01:19 AM

Hi, the bass is Saxon from about 1920 or so.

aks_29 · #10 12-10-2009, 07:03 AM

How can you tell?

And do you have any more information about it?

Thanks to everyone

Michael Glynn · #11 12-10-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aks_29

There's no label.

The story that I heard about this luthier is that they tried to sell a bass to a bassist at my school. They claimed it was a hundred year old italian bass. He took it to another, more reputable luthier and was told that it was a 15 year old Romanian bass.

I went back today to ask more questions about it. The guy couldn't/wouldn't tell me anything except that it's an old german bass close to 100 years old and that it's very good.

Many places will let you try out a bass. Any chance you could try it out and take it to the "more reputable luthier" to get his/her opinion on it? For such a large purchase it's worth getting a second opinion. Like if you were buying an expensive used car, you might want to take it to a mechanic to get their take on it. If for some reason you can't take it to the luthier, you could try to show it to knowledgeable bassists in your area.

Mike D. · #12 12-14-2009, 04:24 PM

Before you decide for sure, take it to Mario! He'll probably say it's actually 30-50 years old. It seems like a German to me, but doesn;t strike me as being quite as old.
There definitely are German bass around 50-150 years old that can cost $10 000.
that said, there are also lots 50-150 year old German/Czech basses that shouldn't be sold for more than $6000-7000 (the two can look the same, but the sound is usually much different from one to another). Mario would know for sure.
If you can, check what's available on Ontario (I know there's a Wilfer bass near Ottawa, they might have some stuff over at Heinls), anything else in town (there's a Wilfer bass in town for sale for the same price), and in New York (Gage and Kolstein will have many more basses in this price range, and by the way are much more trustworthy, lol).
Let us know how it goes.

aks_29 · #13 12-14-2009, 04:27 PM

Thanks, I have the bass now and have until Thursday to decide if I'm keeping it and my appointment with Mario is for Thursday.

LeslieD · #14 12-14-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ_Dad

Picture 195 shows the 1/4 round lining. That, the neck button, back of the scroll, the shape and the color, sure looks like my Musima/Eberle carved from the early 1990's. It also looks like some mid 50's Rubners. There are some Rubner pictures on the web.

It probably is an East German bass because of the 1/4 round lining (mule (sp) joint) as this is the Russian style. It is unlikely that it is older than 1945. You might check out the history of the music industry in Machnekirkin (sp) to see when they restarted production after WW-II.

Also look at the EuropeanBassesOnline site. The Eberle picture there is a ply bass.

+1 for having a connection to the Eberle/Rubner basses and luthiers. It has a sort of petite-ness I'm used to seeing in the Eberles, along with an almost cookie-cutter quality of the Eberles and Otto Rubners I've seen/played. I'd guess it's pre-1945 and pre-Musima factory, but I wouldn't be too surprised if this was one of the earlier basses made in the Musima factory (before they settled on the obnoxious orangey finish of basses produced in the 70s and 80s). The shape looks closely matches this pic of my plywood Eberle: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=2677719 (Except of course, yours looks much, much nicer).

wayne holmes · #15 12-15-2009, 01:48 PM

I'll get back to you in a few days as soon as I get caught up a little.thanks, wayne

wayne holmes · #16 12-15-2009, 05:32 PM

Thanks for the PM Alex, all I can say from the pictures is that it looks modern something. You are making some wise steps in purchasing a bass. For 10Gs you need to more than like the sound and everything else about the bass, but you need to fall in love with it. I would talk to the previous owner, or owners, going back as far as you can. Surely, the present owner can give you the name of the person he got it from, then keep going until you can't go back any further... Send the pictures to Ken's Corner and ask Ken to give his opinion on what it is. Get as many well experienced opinions. Most likely there will be some kind of agreement on what it is. Maybe you could get it appraised, if there are no papers on it. Remember, IME and IMO older basses at the $10,000 don't move that fast. The chances are that you will have time to do some more work toward making a good decision. I don't recall your playing level. IMO, $10,000 gets up there in the professional grade of basses. There are professional players in big orchestras who didn't pay that much for their bass. Since you weren't looking for a bass when you ran into this one, begs the question-do you need another bass? I know how frustrating it is to buy a bass. This is one of the main reasons that I opened my shop. It is a frustrating and long process; one in which you want and need to feel good about. If I were buying a bass, I would have the following considerations: sound for my type of playing - do I want a new one or an older one.(btw, I keep thinking about all the fine new basses you could get for $10,000)give me a minute while I wipe the drool)--price range that is reasonable for my ability---I am an amateur player, so my playing basses are all under $7000(my opinion)---what area do I want the bass to come from(I have always wanted Europeans instruments)----once I have the instrument, what kind of service will I get, if there is a problem or if it falls apart in six months- it happens-----how close to home do I want to buy----if I have to sell it, how hard will it be to do so-----keep in mind that there are a lot of basses out there for sale which is to your advantage----condition of the bass in great detail---wood used to make it?-----do I have a choice of strings and set up----is it the color and type corners that I have always dreamed of having ---good bag come with?---At what price would I take this bass home smiling all the way-that's what I offer for it.
Good luck- take your time- you have it-

with lots of bass love, wayne.

Mike D. · #17 12-17-2009, 04:16 PM

what did Mario say? Are you gonna keep it? What's it worth in the end? We'd love to hear about it.
The biggest thing about shopping for a bass is NOT buying the first bass you try, but trying many basses. Trying basses beyond what you;re willing to spend too. That way you'll have something to compare them to, and understand what makes a bass more expensive, to know what you like, what you don;t like, etc. It really puts stuff into perspective.
Let us know what's up Alex.

aks_29 · #18 12-17-2009, 08:18 PM

Mario said that it's worth at least 8000, then showed me some potential future problems (which is exactly what I expected). So I told them I'd buy it for 8000, they agreed and I got a new bass.

I've been playing it all week and I'm really happy with it so far.

I think he also said that it's a Tyrolean bass.

Also to Mike (and any other montreal tbers), if you're free come by Shaika (at Girouard and Sherbrooke) on Tuesday the 22nd. Some vanier students have been having a jam there every tuesday, I'll be playing and my new bass will be there too if you want to check it out.

LeslieD · #19 12-18-2009, 04:33 AM

Congratulations on getting your new bass! I'm surprised that it's Tyrolean, but as long as you really love/enjoy your bass maybe its exact origin isn't that important.