Help!....me with my old Kay Swing Master

[slowmusic]

So I have a very old Kay Swing Master...
She's probably from the 40's or 50's
Beautiful plain top and crazy figuring on the back and sides.

She needs a bit of work:
new bridge (I have the old one still)
new strings
a couple small area of the lamination have opened and need to be re-glued.

What do you think its worth?

[tomshepp]

Nice bass. Check craigslist for the local market on these basses. I think you should have the bass evaluated by a trusted luthier at a reputable bass shop. They could be very helpful in determining what if anything it needs. Are you going to keep/play it, or sell it?

This being said, that's the top of Kay's line..... I think.
Roger Stowers has a web site which could help you date it by serial number. Mollykay here on TB may have interest in this one too. She knows lots about american ply basses. Best.

[slowmusic]

I"m going to be selling this kay. I just dont have room for it anymore and I just play electric bass these days.

I'm in Los Angeles and there are quite a few bass shops. That said, I've gone in with other basses and they've never been interested in estimating value, they mostly like to sell repairs, etc.

I've been following local prices on Kay's on craigslist but thats not always a good indicator. People tend to list kays in LA between $2000-3500 but I have no idea if they actually sell! They just list them for that much. There is definitely a difference.

[tomshepp]

You could list it for top $$$ to see if you get any interest. Check ebay for completed listings. I think sold prices are probably down due to the economy.

One thing you should consider is that, if a person is looking for that particular type of Kay, they'll want to hear how it sounds and how it plays. That said, you'll need to get it set up and that, will mean some $$ on your part. If it turns out great, you could get top dollar as this is, like I said, Kay's top of the line. It's in great original condition as well. Check out Jerry Fretwell too. He's big in the world of Kay basses.

[slowmusic]

well I listed it in the FS section. thanks Tomshepp for replying.

[davpal]

You should look inside it to see the serial number to find out what year it was made. Why were the strings taken off? Someone might have done that because it could have a structural problem like the bass bar coming loose..... by now the sound post may have fallen over too. These are questions any potential buyer would have which will affect the selling price. If you want to get the best price for it you should get it evaluated and set up by a competent luthier (one who has knowledge and experience with the double bass). You are also not helping it's condition (which actually looks quite good for this exceptionally pretty Kay) by propping it up against a rough stucco wall.... Just my own opinion, of course...

[slowmusic]

I can get all the necessary info for any buyer who contacts me and is seriously interested in the bass. I've owned a lot of string basses over the years and I'm quite familiar with maintenance etc. Just to be clear, I wasn't hurting the bass by snapping those photos while the bass was very carefully propped up against the wall. The bass wasn't sliding around the wall, or falling over or even moving. I take great care of all my instruments. (My collection of gibson archtops is lovingly tended to).

Thanks

Originally Posted by davpal

You should look inside it to see the serial number to find out what year it was made. Why were the strings taken off? Someone might have done that because it could have a structural problem like the bass bar coming loose..... by now the sound post may have fallen over too. These are questions any potential buyer would have which will affect the selling price. If you want to get the best price for it you should get it evaluated and set up by a competent luthier (one who has knowledge and experience with the double bass). You are also not helping it's condition (which actually looks quite good for this exceptionally pretty Kay) by propping it up against a rough stucco wall.... Just my own opinion, of course...

[drurb]

Originally Posted by slowmusic

I can get all the necessary info for any buyer who contacts me and is seriously interested in the bass.

For now, though, the information a potential buyer cannot get concerns how it plays. I agree with those who have suggested that you have it checked by a qualified luthier and have it set up. You're likely to get substantially more interested potential buyers and net substantially more $$$.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Yes, what you have now is an advanced project. It's a beautiful bass that appears to be in nice condition. Unless the bridge you have is badly warped I would have a luthier throw an old set of strings on it and see what you have. That shouldn't cost much at all.

[james condino]

I see old Kays like this all of the time. Someone pulls one out of grandpa's attic, does a web search and sees a blonde Kay at Jerry Fretwell's shop listed at $4200 and instantly thinks theirs is worth the same price.

Clink summed it up pretty well: right now it is not yet a bass, so no one can objectively evaluate it for setup, tone, playability, or condition. The only thing I can honestly say to evaluate it is that 1) it looks pretty, and 2) I know that at the very worst scenario, I can use it for parts over the next couple of years. Spend three hundred dollars for a set of strings and to have the bridge setup properly; that will allow interested buyers to fully evaluate it and from your end, I can say with pretty good experience and confidence that you'll likely be able to get $1000 more out of it for your up front effort.

On the other end of the spectrum, that is one of the most beautiful laminated backs I've ever seen on a Kay, and it looks to be in good overall health. Get everything professionally setup and restored to best case scenario so it plays and sounds as good as it looks and you may be able to get $3k for it. I'm sitting, in one of the best vintage Kay markets in the country; right now bass sales are very depressed and prices are going for about 30-40% less and taking a lot longer time to sell than they were two years ago...

j.

[MollyKay]

Agreed…a beautiful bass indeed.

My best guess (without a serial number) is this would be a 1940 Kay S-9 transition bass. Kay ended their production of the M-4 in 1939, the M-4 was the precursor to the 1940 S-9 blonde Swingmaster. This bass has characteristics of each model; the M-4 characteristics are the three piece neck (1/8” ebony stringer down the center of the neck) with the flower engraved Kluson tuners. These tuners are slightly different in the flower pattern has been enhanced with the Kay Swingmaster name. The original M-4 has only the flower engraving. I have seen one other Kay, Paul King’s 1938 M-2 that had the Kay Swingmaster engraved on the tuner. His bass did not have the flower engraving so this bass has both the flower engraving and the Kay Swingmaster label. The S-9 characteristics are the bound FF holes and the ebony horseshoe at the button on the neck. Both the M-4 and S-9 were made from highly flamed maple, were blonde in color, had a factory carved scroll (no glue on volutes) and real inlaid purfling. The inlaid purfling also made these basses subject to edge chipping. I have not seen this model in person so it may have a three ply top or a five ply top. I would also assume it has no sound post patch and it should wear gut strings or a light tension string like a Spiro Weich. This model bass is subject to the top sinking if it has a high tension string. I have seen two M-4 with sunken tops (unrepairable sunken tops) because the string tension was too high for too many years. These basses are approaching 70 years old and need TLC to make them last another 70 years…which is highly possible if cared for properly. All in all it is a beautiful bass to look at and with the proper repairs, set up and string should be a great sounding bass as well.

A beautiful bass that deserves an appreciative new owner that will care for it and make joyful music. These are not museum pieces; they should be played and enjoyed.

[PaulKing]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

...I have seen one other Kay, Paul King’s 1938 M-2 that had the Kay Swingmaster engraved on the tuner. His bass did not have the flower engraving ...

Oh yes it did Molly!! Pay attention girl...



On the G/D plate, there's no script, just the flowers.
As my script is on the E/A plate, there's no room for flowers at the bottom, just at the top.

Between us we have a pair.


Nice bass by the way, and fabulously explained by Molly.
I briefly owned a more recent S-9 almost as beautiful...



This is what yours should look like slowmusic:

[MollyKay]

Originally Posted by PaulKing

Oh yes it did Molly!! Pay attention girl...

Ahhh…my most humble apologies. I should have looked at the pictures of your beautiful M-2 bass before I relied on my memory. I remember the script, but not the flowers.

If you two gentlemen have a pair (no pun intended) then I have the older sister and the younger sister. My 1937 M-4 and 1942 S-9 would look lovely flanked by your M-2.

Paul do you think we are the only ones who gives a rats a$$ about M-2, M-4, S-9…blah, blah, blah.

She’s a beauty at 72 years olds…hope someone says that about me when I’m 72.

[PaulKing]

Oh no, i think there are plenty others out there who are interested in rats arses... maybe just not quite so obsessed.

I just made contact with a guy who bought a beautiful 1943 O-1 on ebay over here. Now that's rare, in the UK. I had to work hard to resist...




Turns out he already has 5 basses, including a 50s Mortone.

See... even in the UK...

[PaulKing]

And here's the rest of the M-2 as a reminder!!

[MollyKay]

Originally Posted by PaulKing

... maybe just not quite so obsessed.

Obsessed??? who's obsessed

I just made contact with a guy who bought a beautiful 1943 O-1 on ebay over here.

I had a 1948 Kay O-1 and it looked this.
I do have a 1939 Kay O-100 and it looks a whole lot like that tiger back O-1. Is the guy sure it is an O-1? Until now I had only seen one O-1, it was a dark burgundy orange sunburst color. It was a most unusual color for a Kay.

And I am not obsessed…this is all in the name of research and the sharing of knowledge…at least that is what I keep telling myself. I should start a Bassist Anonymous club for those of us who can't stop obsessing…I mean collecting.

You know I love the M-2...she's a looker.

[PaulKing]

You win this time Molly ... my bad. Yes it's an 0-100.

You should be ashamed that you actually knew that....