Help with a new acquisition

Ripper · #1 07-14-2007, 10:23 AM

i just acquired this bass from a relative last night. This bass has been in my family for years, but it is a little beaten up. i have no idea when it was made or what kind it is. i normally spend my time over in the BG section of this site, and this is my first try at DB.

all i know is that this is very old and it is a 3 string. the neck is worn down and it needs a string. so i come here with questions:

Does anyone know anything about this bass? When it was built and who built it?

What is the best way to fix the damage/restore the finish on the body and the neck?
Where can i get a string for it and what should be on it? (the one that is broken is the 3rd string and it is steel wound, but the others are not)
Any other advise on what to do with it?

thank you in advance for any help!

Peck_Time · #2 07-14-2007, 05:55 PM

Cool old bass!... Take it to a good bass luthier. The neck is not ebony, which suggests that fixing the bass may cost more than it's monetary value.

The 'metal' string looks like a metal wrapped gut string to me.

Good luck!

**Matthew Tucker** · #3 07-14-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Where can i get a string for it

Ripper, unless you get the damage repaired, you cannot even contemplate playing the bass, and unless you want to play a three-string bass you would need to have it converted to four strings. Only an experienced luthier can do those things, and give you any idea of how much to restore it, and what the value *could* be. You could restore it and spend probably a few thousand doing so, or sell it and let someone else do that, or leave it in the corner and do nothing, or string it up and try to play it and wreck it even further!

Definitely take it to a luthier.

Silversorcerer · #4 07-14-2007, 09:12 PM

The grain of the top wood looks good. Lots of cracks to repair. That's where it gets expensive. I think it's a project bass unless you have a fortune for repairs. It's definitely worth getting the estimate. Are there any labels in it? The angles of your photos make it hard to look at the f-holes and details. Try to get some head on. And what does the neck heel and button area look like?

Ripper · #5 07-15-2007, 10:09 AM

I plan on playing this as a 3 string, and its going to be a project bass, but i would like to get it fixed properly. There are no names on it except for on a board inside that im guessing was put in when it was put back together when my grandpa got it (it looks like a board from a Labbatt's Blue box). The neck is in very good condition, but there is one spot that the steel wound string dug in. It is a steel wrapped gut string i just found out.

heres a couple more pics:

drurb · #6 07-15-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peck_Time

Cool old bass!... Take it to a good bass luthier. The neck is not ebony, which suggests that fixing the bass may cost more than it's monetary value.

The 'metal' string looks like a metal wrapped gut string to me.

Good luck!

Necks are usually not made of ebony--fingerboards are and are not relatively difficult or expensive to replace. As others have noted, that is the least of the problems in terms of restoration.

Silversorcerer · #7 07-15-2007, 11:31 AM

Button area doesn't look bad at all. The way the ribs come in there, it might be a blockless bass, meaning the neck and block are one piece. Sometimes those have the ribs let into the neck in a mortice instead of terminating along the block sides. It's a somewhat archaic construction method, but no big deal unless that area around the block needs to be changed or the neck is damaged. That's a really cool old bass. I love the shape of the body and the f holes, but I could only guess at who made it or where. You need to show it to Ken Smith. He may find it unreasonable to repair for any number of reasons, but he'll know what it is. The grain of the top wood and the f hole shape and general form would make it worth saving IMO. If you plan to play it as a 3 string, just get the cracks fixed and get some new strings. The top will have to come off for that to all be done right, but you can probably find a luthier willing to fix it up for you. The good thing is that it is all there, just a few cracks to seal if the neck join is still solid.

On the playing three strings, there is a current group of bassists that are now tuning in fifths like cellos or violins. If you did that with this bass it could be tuned E, B, f# and cover almost as much range as a 4 string bass tuned in 4ths. Keep us posted on how it works out.

Bob Branstetter · #8 07-15-2007, 02:15 PM

With the exception of being a 3 stringer instead of 4, it looks nearly identical to some of the old Tyrolean basses I've restored. As Silver suggested, the bass probably doesn't have a top block and may not have any corner blocks either. What is the body length, and maximum width at the upper and lower bouts of the top or back?

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 07-15-2007, 03:28 PM

I'm interested why you'd want to play the bass as a three-stringer? Does anybody do that nowadays?

Ripper · #10 07-15-2007, 06:25 PM

I just took measurements, and the lengths of the body are:
length:42.5 in
width of top: 20.5 in
width of bottom: 25 in

As far as how i plan to play it, I just think its quirky that it is a 3 string... Its just something different. I plan on tuning it in 4ths like normal, just because im used to playing that. Even though I lose a string on the bottom, I can always play that an octave up.

I just contacted a relatively-local violin luthier (closest that does work on these) so I'll see how it goes.

I thank you very much for all the help.

oh... does anyone have any recommendations on what strings I should put on it? It will be strung A D G.

Bob Branstetter · #11 07-15-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper

I just contacted a relatively-local violin luthier (closest that does work on these) so I'll see how it goes.

Make sure your luthier checks out the cross braces on the back. With those long cracks on the back there's a good chance that one or more will be loose. I usually replace them all if I'm doing a restoration on this type of bass. Good luck.

Cfederle · #12 07-15-2007, 10:25 PM

This is a great find and I look forward to seeing it come back into playing shape. From what I have been told in the past you might even try tuning the bass G D G similar to how Bottesini's tuning, or even use solo tuning A D A which should make the string choices fair bit easier.

Beyond the obvious fix the cracks issue, I imagine the set up will need quite a bit of an overhaul to be steel string friendly.

Steve Swan · #13 07-15-2007, 11:44 PM

Good choice! I'd leave it as a gut-strung 3 string as well.

**Matthew Tucker** · #14 07-15-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

Good choice! I'd leave it as a gut-strung 3 string as well.

Why? Why would a sixteen year old bassist spend what could be thousands on restoring a bass to a three string gut bass? Would it ever remain anything more than a curiosity? Instruments should be played, IMO, unless you are a museum curator and have dollars to spare. Perhaps there are people who play three stringers and love 'em, but I haven't heard of them.

Jeff Moote · #15 07-16-2007, 12:39 AM

3 strings were the standard in parts of the world at one time, and many of the great basses out there today were converted to their current state of 4 strings from that configuration.

I agree with Matthew and don't see why anyone would spend money on restoring an instrument and not have it converted to a useful configuration in line with what has been done to almost all instruments from that time.

bassist1962 · #16 07-16-2007, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I'm interested why you'd want to play the bass as a three-stringer? Does anybody do that nowadays?

Several years ago Tony Levin had Music Man make him a three string BG. I was destroyed in a fire several months later, but I think it was more a novelty then as well. If you are going to spen the money to make it playable, Make it playable, and convert it to four strings.

Silversorcerer · #17 07-16-2007, 08:16 AM

A four string bass is not necessarily any more playable than a 3 string bass and it will be much less to repair the bass than repair and convert it. This is just common sense. No one is suggesting that everyone convert their four stringer back to 3, or get with it and convert it to 5. I think it is ridiculous to obsess on the number of strings it has as a problem. Dragonetti's bass in that English museum was a three stringer. They were quite common. Sometime after five and six string violones lost fashion. There's nothing inherently inferior about an instrument with less strings or more strings. It's how one uses it that counts.

And what is wrong with having something novel? I kind of like the fact that I show up at a gig and someone says what kind is that one with 5 strings? It's the same if you come with a wash tub. People want to experience the novel. So they will say, check that out, three strings! Hmm. It's nothing special but it never hurts to give people something different to look at.

Eli_Upright12 · #18 07-16-2007, 08:20 AM

A question for the Luthiers around, how long has it been since 3 string basses were mad on a normal basis? I was wondering and the Op might like it also.

eh_train · #19 07-16-2007, 08:32 AM

The topic of whether 3 strings are "too archaic" has come up before (maybe a year-and-a-half ago??). At that time, a few TBers made the point that these basses are still commonly used in Eastern European folk musics.

Not long after reading those posts, I saw a Hungarian trio (playing in oh-so-cosmopolitan Toronto), where the bassist had converted his modern 4 stringer into a 3 string bass (new nut and bridge). He'd taken off the G tuner, but hadn't gotten around to plugging the hole!

There's room for all types...

Paul (eh_train)

Jeff Moote · #20 07-16-2007, 08:36 AM

I think the point is that while 3 strings were acceptable at a time (in various tunings) it's wise to have one of the configurations which is standard in current times if you want to play current music. That is, if you're playing jazz, the range of a 4 string is pretty much expected. If you're playing classical, a 4 string with an extension or a 5 string is expected.