How much to spend for a really good bass for jazz

[wisemonkey]

I would love to know other peoples' experiences on this subject.

I got a cheap Romanian bass to get me started on upright several years ago (cost me about £700 - has been valued at £1000)

Now I'm working a lot on D.bass, developed reasonable technique and got good gear (euphonic audio rig, fishman preamp, realist p'up etc)
It's starting to feel like the bass is the weak link. I have played other basses that have a richer, more consistent tone, better sustain etc There's a huge price range out there. I don't want to pay for antique value (and I wouldn't really want to be lugging an expensive antique bass in and out of clubs in a soft bag anyway) Not being an orchestral player the acoustic volume of the instrument is not so much of an issue either, as long as the tone and sustain are good.

So how much do you have to pay to get a really good bass for playing jazz/pop etc and are there any particular makes to look out for? Be great to hear what other people have and what their thoughts are.

[Eric Swanson]

Its a great question.

Have you used the search key on this site? Much discussion on what it takes to get a "decent, but not great" instrument...

I would start by poring over the archives, if you have not yet done so. An interesting compendium of fact, opinion, emotion, brand loyalty, religious frenzy, and voodoo. Hours of enjoyment.

Another issue, for good bang-for-buck, is "setup?". How well is your bass set up? Strings, etc? A great setup can get a lot more sound out of any bass.

After all that, you may be a candidate for a hybrid (carved top, ply sides/back) or inexpensive carved bass. So, we are taking about somewhere in the (very broad) $2000 - $10,000 range (all in US dollars). How much do you travel? Some jazz players I know of are gigging on $3000-7000 basses, and may have a nicer bass that stays safely at home.

Of course, there are many exceptions to this generalization. Folks playing $1000 or $100,000 basses...

There is no quick answer I know of. I would look at it the other way; how much are you ready to spend? Work backwards from that, perhaps, to narrow your options...(?)

But then, if you buy a new bass, you are back at the beginning, with the setup question. In most cases, if you buy an instrument, you will need to drop more money on strings and tweaking to get it dialed in...

For me, sadly, my bass is not the weak link...my playing is. Having a good teacher, a good setup, and lots of practice/playing time have done more for me, over time, than the bass I owned. For me, anyway, as Lance Armstrong writes, "Its Not About the Bike."

[ganga]

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson

For me, anyway, as Lance Armstrong writes, "Its Not About the Bike."

I want to see Armstrong finish Tour de France on this:

But you're completely spot on. But it does help to have a bass that helps you instead of fights you.

[Eric Swanson]

[drurb]

Originally Posted by wisemonkey

So how much do you have to pay to get a really good bass...?

Of course, it depends upon what you mean by "really good." Ask 100 players here and you'll get at least 2500 answers as to what "really good" means ("decent," "among the best," "excellent"?). That said, Eric Swanson's post above is one of the most comprehensive, thoughtful, and dead-on responses you're likely to ever read around here.

[Roger Davis]

Originally Posted by drurb

Of course, it depends upon what you mean by "really good." Ask 100 players here and you'll get at least 2500 answers as to what "really good" means ("decent," "among the best," "excellent"?). That said, Eric Swanson's post above is one of the most comprehensive, thoughtful, and dead-on responses you're likely to ever read around here.

I'd add my endorsement to that. However, I wonder if, as a jazzer, I'd ever have a nicer bass that I leave safely at home. The joy of having a nice bass is to take it out on the road and play good jazz on a good instrument and maximise the smile factor. Sure, there are risks but I don't use public transport (few of us do out of London) and, as I put in a recent post, I take a piece of carpet with me to put the bass down on. But I don't get paranoid about it.

When I go I don't want my epitaph to be 'He had a nicer bass at home'.

[Bruce Lindfield]

This has been a question that I've been thinking about and which is very different in the UK to the US.

So from reading threads around here - our US-based friends have far more options in terms of buying low to medium cost basses..?

Whereas in the UK it seems to be that you have low end - maybe up to £1500 - but then there is a huge vacuum and a jump to about £5,000 -£10,000!!

I just cannot justify £10k on a bass - but I'd be interested in medium range options that people find..?

The only one I can put forward is getting a bass made to your spec by a good maker - but then these guys are busy and you may have to wait for years - so I have seen good Bryant basses for about £5k - but looking at this
http://www.bryantbasses.com/

Paul Bryant is no longer accepting orders for basses ...

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Roger Davis

I'd add my endorsement to that. However, I wonder if, as a jazzer, I'd ever have a nicer bass that I leave safely at home. The joy of having a nice bass is to take it out on the road and play good jazz on a good instrument and maximise the smile factor. Sure, there are risks but I don't use public transport (few of us do out of London) and, as I put in a recent post, I take a piece of carpet with me to put the bass down on. But I don't get paranoid about it.

When I go I don't want my epitaph to be 'He had a nicer bass at home'.

I certainly agree. If I had the $$$ and my playing warranted it, sure, I could see gigging on a really nice $7-10k bass while keeping a very special $30k+ bass at home for my enjoyment that I'd only take to very safe gigs. Then again-- I'd be missing that bass at the other gigs! I'll never be in that position anyway. The practical side is that, yes, I want to play at home and gig on the best bass I can have. For me anyway, the value is not ever likely to exceed $8-12k.

I used to have a Kay as a backup for playing outdoor gigs. I once used it on such a gig and the "smile factor" was so low compared to my nice bass that I traded in the Kay, got an even better "main" bass and never looked back. I now own one bass that goes everywhere. If I ever had a gig such that the conditions were so bad that I really feared for the safety of my bass, I'd borrow or rent a bass that could safely handle it. So far, it hasn't ever happened.

[samriley]

Originally Posted by wisemonkey

Not being an orchestral player the acoustic volume of the instrument is not so much of an issue either, as long as the tone and sustain are good.

really? what sort of jazz do you play?

i rely a lot on my acoustic sound. and then mic the bass up. remember, its an acoustic bass not electric, so it has a lot to do with setup, strings and the way you play it.

yr gonna get so many different answers to your question. this thread reminds me a bit of the 'who is the best jazz bassist' thread.
all basses are worth different money and what you spend varies depending on what is available at the time and who the seller is.
basically if you really love an instrument, pay as much as you're willing to pay for it.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by samriley

i rely a lot on my acoustic sound. ...remember, its an acoustic bass not electric...

If I had my way, this would be on a banner at the top of the forum!

[wisemonkey]

When I go I don't want my epitaph to be 'He had a nicer bass at home'.

Excellent point from Roger there. I know guys that will maybe leave a cheap bass in the pit of their show, and save the nice one for other gigs, but to have a great bass and not use it seems a crime.

I once spent an afternoon in the gallery in London - played virtually every (electric) bass in the shop without looking at the price tag just as an experiment. The nicest one there was a Tanglewood fretless worth £350. I guess it was just a sweet piece of wood.

Do you think this is possible with a cheap upright? or is there anything about the construction of higher priced basses that makes them inherently superior to a cheaper carved bass?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by wisemonkey

So how much do you have to pay to get a really good bass for playing jazz/pop etc and are there any particular makes to look out for?

Well as I mentioned, I think this question is going to be different for each country ...

I'd love to try an Upton bass for example, but have never seen one in the UK..?

I'd say in Britain - forget about the idea of "makes" and just grab whatever you can as the supply is so limited...

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by wisemonkey

I once spent an afternoon in the gallery in London - played virtually every (electric) bass in the shop without looking at the price tag just as an experiment. The nicest one there was a Tanglewood fretless worth £350. I guess it was just a sweet piece of wood.

Do you think this is possible with a cheap upright?

I think you need to read the long thread headed "inexpensive basses in the UK....."

I have been on this road for about 10 years now!!

And the answer to your question is NO!!

Seriously it is so frustrating - I used to go to the Bass Centre and Gallery and try dozens of different bass guitars - all the ones people in the US talked about!

But when I started down the Double Bass road - it is so different - no big shops with stock that you can try - many sellers are just one guy in his house who can get you a bass but has no stiock to try!

And the shops that do have some stock, are just way out of my price range - £10k - £50k minimum - I would just be embarassed to walk in the door ....

[drurb]

Originally Posted by wisemonkey

Do you think this is possible with a cheap upright? or is there anything about the construction of higher priced basses that makes them inherently superior to a cheaper carved bass?

Price and quality in DB are sure not one-to-one. It's almost as bad as loudspeakers! That said, given examples of the best (or near-best) execution of, say, a $3k bass and a $20k bass, the latter will blow away the former.

[wisemonkey]

Originally Posted by samriley

really? what sort of jazz do you play?

i rely a lot on my acoustic sound. and then mic the bass up. remember, its an acoustic bass not electric, so it has a lot to do with setup, strings and the way you play it.

yr gonna get so many different answers to your question. this thread reminds me a bit of the 'who is the best jazz bassist' thread.
all basses are worth different money and what you spend varies depending on what is available at the time and who the seller is.
basically if you really love an instrument, pay as much as you're willing to pay for it.

You're quite right of course - the actual acoustic sound of the bass is everything, and I always try to make my amplification as transparent as possible. But I don't necessarily need to play loud acoustically. whereas I understand this is a factor for orchestral players as they have no amplification.
Regarding your comment that it's a bit like asking 'who is the best jazz bassist' I think you have misunderstood what my post is all about. I'm not looking for "the correct answer", I know I will get lots of different answers - that's what I want! I think it's a really useful discussion to have

[Eric Swanson]

So, how much are you prepared/able to spend?

Answering this query may be good starting point for a discussion on instruments in any country...

[Bruce Lindfield]

This is the question - so I see the next step up in the UK as basses around £5k (double for $?) - but I could buy a nice used car for that!! It's a lot of money!

[wisemonkey]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

This is the question - so I see the next step up in the UK as basses around £5k (double for $?) - but I could buy a nice used car for that!! It's a lot of money!

I have heard this before so it's good to have it confirmed.
5K (pounds) is doable for me, but 10k would be too much for me.

Eric raises an interesting point - that prices vary according to country.

I wonder if there are any better deals to be had elsewhere in Europe, or even if it's worth looking in the USA and paying shipping costs

[Eric Swanson]

Then there are the questions about convenience and timing:

- How long is one prepared to wait/and/or shop? A longer time frame could present further options. Could we wait for a hand-made bass? Can we wait for that vintage "dream bass" to appear, somewhere, sometime? Can we travel to seek it?

- How much fussing is one prepared to do with the new instrument? Looking for a "turnkey" instrument or a "fixer upper?"

- How much energy/time does one have for the hunt?

For a working pro, spending a car's worth of money (or more) on an instrument would be about investing in the tools of the trade. A bass can help a pro make a living. A good instrument, if well cared for, may appreciate in value (faster than many other investments, these days...).

A car will instantly depreciate. Having a pricier auto is less likely to build one's reputation on the bandstand...

[drurb]

Some years ago, I sold a car to buy a better bass!