Humidity control in NYC

[brianh]

Hi,

This is my first full winter in NYC and I'm wondering if any of the guys who've been here a bit longer can give me their opinion on humidity control.

Coming from the midwest, I'm used to dealing with fairly vast changes in humidity. In the winters my instrument always used to dry out and I think a lot of this was due to the gas/electric heating used in most "modern" homes. Because of this I always used dampits and a room humidifier in the winters.

Now that I'm in NYC I'm suprised that I'm not having this problem at all (although the summers are worse). I'm thinking this might be related to the steam heat my building uses. Anyone out there, specifically those who might live an old pre-war building, have any insight? Should I be doing anything to protect the bass or is it normal out here to not have to do anything?

[mheintz]

Originally Posted by brianh

Hi,

This is my first full winter in NYC and I'm wondering if any of the guys who've been here a bit longer can give me their opinion on humidity control.

Coming from the midwest, I'm used to dealing with fairly vast changes in humidity. In the winters my instrument always used to dry out and I think a lot of this was due to the gas/electric heating used in most "modern" homes. Because of this I always used dampits and a room humidifier in the winters.

Now that I'm in NYC I'm suprised that I'm not having this problem at all (although the summers are worse). I'm thinking this might be related to the steam heat my building uses. Anyone out there, specifically those who might live an old pre-war building, have any insight? Should I be doing anything to protect the bass or is it normal out here to not have to do anything?

Steam heat can be a disaster. If the steam leaks, you can develop mold issues and it may be too humid; you don't want it too humid, because the transition between outside and inside will be too stark. If it doesn't leak, it'll still be too dry. Don't use dampits. They may cause water damage. Buy something to control the humidity. I currently have two humidifiers and electric heat, but had steam heat for the 4 years before that.

[jfkbass]

the winter has always been brutal on my bass in NYC....just keep counting your lucky stars.....and get yourself a good humidifier. I went through a couple of cheapies before i ended up with an Air-O-Swiss. Good luck.

[Ed Fuqua]

I think that's just the fact that it's been pretty humid. Radiators don't actually vent any moisture into your apartment (unless you've got a bad valve), you can get pretty dry in there unless you've got humidifiers/evaporators that attach to the radiator. But after having to get seams reglued almost every year, the last couple of three have been no problem.

[Mike Arnopol]

Properly functioning steam radiators vent no steam. I concur with the Air O Swiss. Bought a demo of a $229 unit for $79 at Bed Bath and Beyond. It is also a wise idea to buy a halfway decent humidity gauge . Chicago here. You do not want to f*** with humidity with good basses. I know from experience.

[Jason Sypher]

I'm having a hell of a time this winter. I bought a nice air-o-swiss rated at 650 sq ft. (my apartment is about 900) and it can't keep up in the front two rooms. I've got my little studio in the basement and I've got a big one down there that is also having a hard time getting up to 40%. I've tried to do some sealing and window plastic ect. I don't know what the deal is.

[dkpawlowski]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I'm having a hell of a time this winter. I bought a nice air-o-swiss rated at 650 sq ft. (my apartment is about 900) and it can't keep up in the front two rooms. I've got my little studio in the basement and I've got a big one down there that is also having a hard time getting up to 40%. I've tried to do some sealing and window plastic ect. I don't know what the deal is.

Actually, you'd be surprised at how often the air in a house is "exchanged" with outside air- even tightly sealed. Also, 40% is tough to get in really cold climates. Just do the best you can.

[Jason Sypher]

Well, I really let go last winter and, for the most part, the bass held up. I just got it completely overhauled and I'd like to keep it in this condition for as long as I can. I can't afford a humidifier in every room so I'll just have to do what I can...

[Steve Clark]

I'm having good success keeping my room in the 35-40 range with a cool humidifier. As Nnick Lloyd said cool one does make the room feel a bit like a cave as opposed to a warm. He was right bout that. I keep the door closed but do have to fill the unit once a day so being away for an extended period in the winter would be problematic. Shen Willow is what I'm trying to protect. I'm actually very pleased with how things are going this winter. I was apprehensive about getting a fully carved bass in my climate but I've had the bass out to lots of gigs in the cold.

[downneck]

Originally Posted by Steve Clark

I'm having good success keeping my room in the 35-40 range with a cool humidifier. As Nnick Lloyd said cool one does make the room feel a bit like a cave as opposed to a warm. He was right bout that. I keep the door closed but do have to fill the unit once a day so being away for an extended period in the winter would be problematic. Shen Willow is what I'm trying to protect. I'm actually very pleased with how things are going this winter. I was apprehensive about getting a fully carved bass in my climate but I've had the bass out to lots of gigs in the cold.

when going away for a few days i find it helpful to fill a couple giant pasta pots with water and just set them on the floor in the room. as they evaporate they'll take some of the heat off your humidifier and help it last longer. i've got a massive 16 quart affair that's perfect for these occasions

[drurb]

It's important to have a good digital hygrometer and these can be had for all of $10 or so. As far as humidification goes, I prefer evaporative humidifiers to ultrasonic because the ultrasonics can result in a mineral "dust" layer on the bass as well as other things in the room. In addition, if not well controlled, they can lead to droplets of water on surfaces close to them. Such problems are avoided with an evaporative humidifier. As for Air O Swiss, they make an evaporative model and here's what they say:

No white dust: The evaporative method of humidification is the most natural and healthiest way to add pure moisture to the air, without leaving any white dust or residue from mineral deposits. Replaceable wick filter traps any impurities or minerals that are present in the water.

When I need to leave for a few days and can't control humidity, I put the bass in the bag along with a very wet sponge in an open zip-lock bag. This creates a humidified mini-environment. I NEVER use dampits (that's another chapter). So far, so good!

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by drurb

It's important to have a good digital hygrometer and these can be had for all of $10 or so.[/i]

Maybe. I have 4 Honeywell and 2 Bionaire digital hygrometers so I've had the opportunity to compare them under identical circumstances. One of the Honeywell meters reads 2 units low on the humidity side, otherwise they are virtually identical.

When we had our blast of cold, dry air from the interior earlier this winter I was taking a Honeywell unit to Long & McQuade with me to keep track. I forgot it one day, so I went to the string department and grabbed one of the 'Oasis' meters they sell. It showed REALLY low humidity, ~19%. I brought my hygrometer with me the next day and it showed that the Oasis was reading 6% low.

Caveat emptor

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Maybe. I have 4 Honeywell and 2 Bionaire digital hygrometers so I've had the opportunity to compare them under identical circumstances. One of the Honeywell meters reads 2 units low on the humidity side, otherwise they are virtually identical.

When we had our blast of cold, dry air from the interior earlier this winter I was taking a Honeywell unit to Long & McQuade with me to keep track. I forgot it one day, so I went to the string department and grabbed one of the 'Oasis' meters they sell. It showed REALLY low humidity, ~19%. I brought my hygrometer with me the next day and it showed that the Oasis was reading 6% low.

Caveat emptor

Ok, I admit it. I have two digital hygrometers in the room with my bass. They usually read within about 2-4% of each other.

[robobass]

I think steam heat in principal has a lesser tendency to dry the air than the typical midwestern forced-air system, but NYC is a special case. When I first moved there, the radiators in my Washington Heights apartment had no controls on them. When the landlord turned them on, there was way too much heat, and we had to open our windows. I noticed that many buildings all around the city had open windows on the upper floors even on the coldest days. I learned that the landlords could suffer criminal penalties if any unit was too cold, so they would naturally fire up the boiler to max. I would hope that with the current cost of fuel they have seen fit to go around and install working valves on every radiator in every flat (imagine the waste!), but I doubt that a majority of landlords have done this. They generally aren't Inconvienient Truth fans, are they?
What's important for string players is that the kind of heat you have is probably less important than the amount. In older apartments the exchange of outside air is substantial, so the best thing you can do to maintain relative humidity is to try to keep your rooms cool in winter. We used to cover our radiators with blankets or even foil backed fibreglass insulation! Humifiers may help, but most of that humidity may just be going out the window!

[drurb]

Indeed, keeping the room cooler will raise the relative humidity, all other things being equal.