Hybrid durability

[61pollmann]

Most of the comments here on TB regarding hybids like the Shen or Upton have focused on the upgrade in sound over a completely laminated bass. I have found that by carefully controlling the entire signal chain, I can get a good sound out of a laminated bass, but that it lacks a bit of complexity in tone. I will be looking for a bass that I don't have to worry about too much when playing in differing environments. I do outdoor gigs about five months per year here in southern Wisconsin. I also play in several very different clubs. Several times a year I go to other states to play jazz festivals. My question is regarding the durability of hybrid basses. Do the carved tops have problems because they might slightly change dimension with the season and weather, while the laminated sides and back do not. Maybe this is a non-issue. I'm hoping that hybrid owners can give me some feedback regarding this. I'm planning on auditioning the new Shen SB-190 model. It is a hybrid with a flat back and the body size and shape of the Shen Rogeri. Anyone playing this?

Thanks in advance,

George

[Mark Carlsen]

I am a fond believer in hybrids and living here in the NE really puts this design to the test. I play the low end Shen [SB-150] and I get the classic Juzek sound without the hassle.
I have not tried a 190 yet, but hope to in due time. My 150 is 5 years old and needs a soundpost tweak every so often and thats about it. It is on its second set of Spiro mittels and its killin....

[BPeder]

My Upton Deluxe Hybrid 2007 Opus 113 has had no major issues. I live in the Twin Cities Minneapolis/St. Paul, and I play in many venues both inside and out in most seasons. I have a very small, less than half an inch of top that seems to be coming away from a side near the bottom corner adjacent to the lower part of the near side F hole. This tiny opening has not changed at all for almost 2 years.

Gary at Upton did say that with a carved top, there will be minor issues. It's a piece of natural wood and it's going to move. No way around it. Maybe one of our luthier friends can clarify this issue again.

Keep it in a situation that allows for reasonably controlled humidity and you should have a real work horse that serves your needs well for many years. I think if you are looking for that added complexity of tone but you want a bass you can take into the trenches, you really can't go wrong. Good Luck!

[Mike Goodbar]

I also live in south(east)ern Wisconsin. I have a Christopher hybrid, and it has suffered no ill-effects due to climate that I can detect. Worst I've had was a slightly open seam.

I have small humidifier in the music room that keeps things around 40%, but on days when the furnace is running a lot, its gotten down to near 30% without any catastrophe.

[AMJBASS]

I haven't really had any problems either. Never a crack at any rate. I purchased a Christopher Hybrid a few years ago with an open seem and had it repaired. No problems after that. I try to keep the humidity above 40% if possible, but I do that for my plywood as well. Seems can open in a laminate too...

[drurb]

No way around it. Carved basses are most susceptible, ply bass the least, and hybrids are in between. Living in the northeast, I control humidity carefully and the biggest problem I ever had was a loose seam or two on a fully carved bass. I have had no problems of any kind with my carved Upton Concert but it is only about 1.5 years old. That said, I'm not comfortable dragging a carved bass outdoors. Maybe I'm just over-cautious. Given the extensive plans to take your bass to outdoor gigs and festivals, I think a high-quality ply would be the choice. At least, it would be for me. FWIW, I've always found any ply bass to lack much more than "a bit" of complexity of tone when compared to a quality hybrid or carved bass. Life involves a bunch of trade-offs.

[LeslieD]

I've mostly had laminate and carved basses until I picked up an Eberle hybrid this last November. I've had it 3 1/2 months and I've been very pleased with how stable it is even with significant changes in humidity when I take it elsewhere. It's not a high-quality hybrid bass, but it has a bit of the "complexity of tone" WITHOUT the paranoia of taking it to a gig where it might get damaged.

I've heard good things about the Shen SB-190, and I like the Rogeri shape. I have an SB-280W (Shen Willow Rogeri) and there are a lot of places I won't take it (because of humidity changes and other potential hazards). With the SB-190 though, the only part that's laminated is the back. I might be somewhat concerned about the solid willow ribs...even though I've never had any problems w/ mine. Good luck with your search and decision!

[Phil Rowan]

Mine has 3 nice cracks down by the tailpiece (one goes up to the f-hole) and one by the bass-side upper bout/shoulder.. may have to do with it being a 1940's Lang.

[pathdoc2]

I would love to see a blind test where several basses including ply, hybrid and carved basses where played by top notch players and see if they could easily tell which bass they were playing.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by pathdoc2

I would love to see a blind test where several basses including ply, hybrid and carved basses where played by top notch players and see if they could easily tell which bass they were playing.

Interesting. I'd like to hear this too but not with just any ply, hybrid, and carved basses. Given a quality carved-top bass, a decent acoustic environment, and an adequate selection of musical material, I'd bet a cookie that I'd discriminate ply from carved rather reliably. Sure would be nice to test it, though.

[John Sprague]

We have an often-argued theory regarding top cracks, and it is our belief that the movement of the harder/stronger maple backs of basses causes cracks in the softer/weaker spruce tops. Building with a plywood back, by that theory, stabilizes the top, or at least eliminates it having to argue with a solid maple back.

Just going by our experience with plys and hybrids, we have found that though a hybrid isn't as durable as plywood, it is pretty close. So instead of saying it is half way between a ply and a carved, I would say that, on the durability curve, it is much closer to the plywoods. I would guess Upton and the other makers have had similar results. I wonder if Arnold's basses agree.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by John Sprague

We have an often-argued theory regarding top cracks, and it is our belief that the movement of the harder/stronger maple backs of basses causes cracks in the softer/weaker spruce tops. Building with a plywood back, by that theory, stabilizes the top, or at least eliminates it having to argue with a solid maple back.

Just going by our experience with plys and hybrids, we have found that though a hybrid isn't as durable as plywood, it is pretty close. So instead of saying it is half way between a ply and a carved, I would say that, on the durability curve, it is much closer to the plywoods. I would guess Upton and the other makers have had similar results. I wonder if Arnold's basses agree.

Agreed. FWIW, I didn't say, and didn't mean to suggest, that hybrids are half-way between carved and plywood in terms of durability. Thanks for the additional detail.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by pathdoc2

I would love to see a blind test where several basses including ply, hybrid and carved basses where played by top notch players and see if they could easily tell which bass they were playing.

If somebody sets up a betting pool, I'm in for five bucks.

But I don't think a blind test would be necessary. Unlike spooky "audiophile" effects, there are physical differences between ply and carved basses that could at least motivate the hypothesis that they might sound different. One that I'll give you is that ply tops are typically of constant thickness. The acoustical properties of the instruments could also be measured.

I am hoping to be the owner of a carved bass soon, but I can't offer to do a blind test, as my plywood bass has too many give-away features. I could tell them apart without playing them, so it wouldn't be a fair trial. For one thing, the splinters from the plywood edges make a certain sound when my bass rubs on my sweatshirt.

[olivieraleman]

61
Been gigging my Upton Hybrid for one year with no problems. Festivals in the summer to in and out of vans, and the back of my pickup, this winter. It has held up very well. However, I am on the verge of getting a fully carved instrument. Will I treat it the same as I did the Hybrid? Dunno, but I aint buying it to look at in my living room, and we shall see. John

[olivieraleman]

On another note, the bass player in my bluegrass group, in which I play guitar and sing, plays a nice carved bass and has had it repaired numerous times. It sounds better than my Upton acoustically, but amped, the difference isnt that great.

[jstiel]

I had a couple of inexpensive hybrids around the house for a number of years. I live in Michigan and there is quite a humidity swing from summer to winter and back. Never had a problem and I didn't use anything to regulate the humidity.