I hate to amit it

rodlloyd · #1 12-06-2009, 10:01 PM

A couple of years ago the local theater group decided to put on Fiddler on the Roof. My wife was in the cast. I asked about the music and it sounded like a thin group of musicians and no bass. If offered to play string bass and was quickly accepted. I had a problem. I did not own a bass and had never played one [not even guitar or electric bass]. How hard could it be? I had 5 months to the show and I am an accomplished musician.

I purchsed a bass and found a bass player with the local symphony willing to give me a couple of lessions to get me started [at no cost]. By the time I attended my first lesson, I had most of the easy parts mastered and there was very little bowing. My teacher gave me some basic techniques and I went and hid untill I was ready for my public.

I started of course with marks on my neck but that was not going to be acceptable for a performance. Hold your breath, I installed two small pins in the far side of the neck that guided my left hand to what I call 2nd fret and fouth fret. These pins were not visable and I was able to hit all my notes with confidence. All performances went well and I got great cudos when they found out my short learning curve.

After the show was done, I vowed to continue my practice without my pins. The bottom line is I have never got back to a performance standard without my tiny pins and am considering re-installing them. I am interested in hearing comments on this.

My second problem is I have small hands and find it impossible to replicate the finguring taught in all method books by covering ie E to F# on the D string. My second question is,
are there fingure stretching excercises that will get me to what is currently very impossible, OR
is it possible to play adequately only covering only ie E to F

Rod

Jeff Michael · #2 12-06-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodlloyd

A couple of years ago the local theater group decided to put on Fiddler on the Roof. My wife was in the cast. I asked about the music and it sounded like a thin group of musicians and no bass. If offered to play string bass and was quickly accepted. I had a problem. I did not own a bass and had never played one [not even guitar or electric bass]. How hard could it be? I had 5 months to the show and I am an accomplished musician.

I purchsed a bass and found a bass player with the local symphony willing to give me a couple of lessions to get me started [at no cost]. By the time I attended my first lesson, I had most of the easy parts mastered and there was very little bowing. My teacher gave me some basic techniques and I went and hid untill I was ready for my public.

I started of course with marks on my neck but that was not going to be acceptable for a performance. Hold your breath, I installed two small pins in the far side of the neck that guided my left hand to what I call 2nd fret and fouth fret. These pins were not visable and I was able to hit all my notes with confidence. All performances went well and I got great cudos when they found out my short learning curve.

After the show was done, I vowed to continue my practice without my pins. The bottom line is I have never got back to a performance standard without my tiny pins and am considering re-installing them. I am interested in hearing comments on this.

My second problem is I have small hands and find it impossible to replicate the finguring taught in all method books by covering ie E to F# on the D string. My second question is,
are there fingure stretching excercises that will get me to what is currently very impossible, OR
is it possible to play adequately only covering only ie E to F

Rod

My answer would be do whatever you have to to play in tune without injuring yourself. If you need to throw a little fractional cheater shift into a position, and you figure out how to consistently do it so you're always in tune, you've come up with your own method. The ultimate goal of working with a method book, after all, is to transcend it.

Orthodox technique is orthodox for a reason--generations of players have found it to be the best possible solution to the most musical problems. You might get the Arch Eyebrow of Disapproval from the monacle set. But for my nickel, if it sounds good, it is good. Stole that from Duke.

JAM

MDEbass · #3 12-06-2009, 10:32 PM

Best advice I can give would be getting a good teacher. In terms of finger stretching, I wouldn't reccomend it. You shouldn't want to stretch your fingers out of you natural hand positon, so I would reccomend learning the Rabbath method using pivots, etc. in order to mainain the natural shape of the hand and not stretch. Again, in order to learn this, I'd get a teacher. Good luck

hdiddy · #4 12-06-2009, 11:04 PM

Your pins are a crutch. The only way to get past them is through proper technique through lessons with a good instructor and hard work (practice). Do it wrong and you can hurt yourself. There is no easy way. E-F on the D string is basic. You can only make so much music at that position. IMO, everybody has to shift to hit the F#. Intonation? Thats what scales and a bow are for.

Seriously: if you can't put the time in, I'd go get a fretted electric bass and try to make that sound work.

Fletcher Lanning · #5 12-06-2009, 11:13 PM

I have really small hands. On a a 3/4 size bass, E - F# on the D string should only be a few inches. Unless you're collapsing your hand, you should be able to cover a whole step (two half steps) in lower positions. You don't need to stretch, you just need to relax. Make sure your hand is arched around the neck, with the pad of your thumb resting on the back of the neck. As long as you keep your fingers arched, you will be able to reach just about anything you need to.

hdiddy · #6 12-06-2009, 11:33 PM

It can't be repeated enough: GET A TEACHER!!!!

Tylerrr51 · #7 12-06-2009, 11:53 PM

i dont recomend getting a teacher right off the bat. you will adapt his style and be stuck playing marry had a little lamb for years, im a self taught bassist and find it very easy to pick up techniques on my own. in my 1st year of playing i surpassed many of my friends who have been playing for 3 years. the point is you have to be patient, practice, and develope your OWN style of the music YOU like. if you like to listen to led zeppelin then learn there songs along with other songs of your interest

LM Bass · #8 12-06-2009, 11:54 PM

You need a teacher. Do yourself a favour. . .

hdiddy · #9 12-07-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tylerrr51

i dont recomend getting a teacher right off the bat. you will adapt his style and be stuck playing marry had a little lamb for years, im a self taught bassist and find it very easy to pick up techniques on my own.

Says the metal electric bassist to the musical-playing DB novice. Is this some sort of weird childs fable?

Dude, did you even read what this thread is about and where it's posted?
BTW: I saw your technique. Personally, I think you could use some lessons yerself.

__HM__ · #10 12-07-2009, 12:02 AM

I dunno. You play music to have fun. Who cares if other musicians think your pins are a "crutch." If they help you, and you can play as well as a guy who doesnt have markers, and you're having fun above all, then I say just keep using your pins.

Fletcher Lanning · #11 12-07-2009, 12:40 AM

DB is a very different beast from the Bass Guitar. Even the best 'self-taught' DB players looked at what other good players were doing and took cues from them, and most of them probably had someone to ask when they had technique questions, or even had other bass players critique them when they played.

With something as big and cumbersome as a DB you really should take at least one or two lessons so you don't build bad habits that will lead to injury.

robobass · #12 12-07-2009, 05:45 AM

Lessons from the beginning! If you can't play a E - F - F# on the D-string using classic Simandl 1,2,4 then you not only won't ever develop decent sound, intonation, or sight reading proficiency, but you will probably hurt your hand. On the other hand, once you do master this first step, you will find the bass surprisingly fun and not so terribly difficult to play. And, you won't need those pins either! Simandl technique doesn't require large hands. In fact, many highly ranked professional players have surprisingly small hands. Do see to it that your action is reasonable though. If the strings are too high, then it will be much more difficult to get going.

Bass · #13 12-07-2009, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

...E-F on the D string is basic. You can only make so much music at that position. IMO, everybody has to shift to hit the F#...

I hate shifting. But after a while the fingers begin to remember where the notes are (the ears notice you were close but not quite right a 100 times).

drurb · #14 12-07-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Your pins are a crutch. The only way to get past them is through proper technique through lessons with a good instructor and hard work (practice). Do it wrong and you can hurt yourself. There is no easy way.

+1! Gold star advice. It would be foolish to try and convince yourself otherwise. No shortcuts. Get a teacher and you'll progress much faster, avoid bad habits, and avoid injury.

farmerdude · #15 12-07-2009, 10:56 AM

...are metal dudes required to wear spandex at their lessons?

Fletcher Lanning · #16 12-07-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerdude

...are metal dudes required to wear spandex at their lessons?

I'm trying to imagine what a 'Metal' DB player would sound like...weird...

jallenbass · #17 12-07-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Your pins are a crutch.

I seem to remember reading that somebody well-known (Holland or Peacock is who I'm thinking) has a tiny piece of dowel placed in the back of their bass neck to help them find 3rd position (Simandl). Similar to using the crook of the neck to find 4th positon. Can't find a reference so maybe I dreamed it.

HogieWan · #18 12-07-2009, 01:16 PM

if your are having trouble stretching your fingers, your hand may not be in the right position. With your (assuming left) hand palm facing you as if you were going to play the bass, turn your wrist slightly so that your palm turns toward the floor. You will find a bit more room between fingers this way.

wayne holmes · #19 12-07-2009, 01:18 PM

I stopped reading when I came to hdiddy-he says it all for me- I went through the same thing, except my dot of choice for my addiction were round white dots. If anyone ever said anything- I would say"hey, this is the only thing that Edgar Myer and I have in common-don't take it away from me"- I even carried a picture of him and his dotted finger board(trust me Edgar doesn't need those dots)I think also, the reason I use the landmarks was because of my classical fretted guitar playing for 25 years before I fell in love with the double bass. Anyway, after all those years of lessons, and recitals at the community college, and playing about 12 years of community orchestar music, I finally removed them. The reason that I removed them was that one day I realized that I had become so familiar with the notes all over the board, that I had not looked at those dots in about two year. Even so, It was scarry, but I removed them, and now I wonder why I ever had them at all. My suggestion has already been given several times--something you already know well- practice!- get a good teacher who teaches in a traditional way- I would go to a 1/2 or 5/8 size before I would go with Rabbath's method-I would stay away from selftaughters- Rabbath's idea of practicing 3 hours a day for 3 days and rest one-however, is what got me familiar with the board enough to remove the dots. Good luck-go practice-I'm talking to myself,too

Poor Tom · #20 12-07-2009, 01:21 PM

I would think of it this way: What if you become a great bassist, can play just about anything and you just plain rock. The catch is that you have to use these little pin location markers. So what happens when someone asks you to play and don't have your bass available? If you can't use your own instrument with its markers, then do you instantly go from virtuoso to amateur? You should have the confidence/skills to pick up any bass and be able to play it just the same.

just a thought.