I need your help...

bassyeah · #1 06-13-2009, 12:15 PM

Good morning DB forum!

I am new to this forum as I have never owned a double bass... until now! A client of mine gave me a Kay bass and I am very much looking forward to learning to play it!

I have two questions at this time: 1) Can you help me identify more about this bass... it is a Kay. I see a sticker on the inside that says Kay Bass Viol, model M - 1 (or an I... it is hand written and hard to tell) - W. 2) I would like to have it looked over to make sure it is functioning properly and am not sure where to look for a good luthier in my area... I live in the LA area... more specifially Ventura County... any recommendations?

I am really excited and appreciate any input!

Thanks for reading-

Bass Barrister · #2 06-13-2009, 01:34 PM

Welcome to the Double Bass Forum!

Your bass was made by the Kay Musical Instrument Company of Chicago, Illinois, sometime between 1937 and 1969. The M-1 ("Maestro") model was the mid-line model made by Kay. If it is, in fact, an M-1 "W", this suggest an earlier version. There is some discussion as to what the real meaning of the "W" was.

Your bass should have a serial number either printed or writen on the label. You can find the approximate date of the bass by looking it up on Roger Stower's site: www.kaybass.com. There, you will also find extensive information about Kay bass history, models, parts, and accessories.

Kay basses have quite a following, especially amongst the bluegrass and country players. While these were all plywood basses intended for the high school crowd, they have been owned by many pros and have acquired venerable status as collectible instruments. In mint condition, these often sell for $3k and up. Of course, many of them have been beat to hell buy even those seem to sell for more than one would think they are worth. I own one (Model S-8, ca. 1939).

I know that there are a number of good luthiers in your area that get frequent mention here, buy will let some of the locals respond to that part of your inquiry.

Enjoy your new bass. If you can, post some good pictures.

bassyeah · #3 06-13-2009, 02:53 PM

Thanks for the reply... it is a handwritten serial number... 7100. I looked at that site (thank you) and it says 1940???
It is in very good condition IMHO considering the age... it has definitley been played but not abused. It does need strings (one is missing) and I imagine some other attention.
I have taken some pics but am not sure how to post them (it asks for a url)... I will give it a try...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attach...1&d=1244926327

Bass Barrister · #4 06-13-2009, 03:11 PM

Nice bass! The serial number sounds about right for 1940 or so - Kay numbered the basses sequentially, regardless of model number.

Does it have the original tuners made by Kluson? If so, there may be a small indicator of that on the tuner plates, but not all tuners were labelled. It looks like someone replaced the end pin, as early pins were just a wood peg. Do you know if that fingerboard is original?

Sometimes, you just get lucky. Looks like you did.

bassyeah · #5 06-13-2009, 03:25 PM

I looked at the tuners and cannot tell... I saw no indication. They looked like they were brass plated but are very worn.
I am assuming the end pin is what it stands on on the very bottom. This is metal and retractable. It looks like it might have been replaced because the wood at the very top does not match the style of the rest of the bass.
I have no idea if the fingerboard was replaced... it looks like it was supposed to be there and it is flat under the E... it mentions that on the website you forwarded me.

fdeck · #6 06-13-2009, 08:17 PM

Get some decent strings on there, kiss your sanity goodbye, and welcome to the world of the double bass.

RandyMolson · #7 06-13-2009, 08:33 PM

Nice looking Kay.

bassyeah · #8 06-14-2009, 08:36 AM

any recommendations on a luthier here in the LA area? or at least where to look for one??

PeterCiulla · #9 06-15-2009, 09:33 AM

Stein on Vine ( I went here. )

Los Angeles Bass Works

World of Strings

Have fun!!! I'm new to DB too!

-Pete

bassyeah · #10 06-15-2009, 01:19 PM

Thank you Pete...

TroyK · #11 06-15-2009, 05:08 PM

What type of music do you intend to play on it? Knowing that, we can point you in a string direction. KEEP THOSE GUT STRINGS that come off of it. At least for a while and then if you really don't want them, sell them here. They'll sit in the classifieds for about an hour.

Depending on what you intend to play, they may not be the best choice for you, though. It's important to get clear on those things before you go to the luthier. A set up for that type of string will be very different than one for more modern strings.

So, what's your bag? Classical? Jazz? Bluegrass? Rockabilly?

bassyeah · #12 06-15-2009, 06:02 PM

It would be Jazz for sure. What kind of strings for that?
I'm glad you said something about the strings... hmmm. It is missing the E string... does that matter?

fdeck · #13 06-15-2009, 06:57 PM

You need the E string, otherwise the bass loses at least 1/4 of its obnoxiousness.

The Kay was designed to be strung with gut strings and played the hell outa, so the original bridge would be much higher than what a mainstream jazz player would be comfortable with today. If the bridge is going to be lowered anyway, then I think it makes sense to have adjusters installed by the luthier.

Next, strings. It's worth perusing the Strings forum for advice on the choice of strings. For reference, I have Spirocore Mittel (medium) steel strings on my Kay, which I think is the most common jazz string, but that doesn't necessarily make it the best choice for you.

It's worth having the luthier check the straightness of the fingerboard, and the condition of the bass bar and neck block, as these were problematic on some old Kay basses including mine.

As a reminder, correct technique is vital to surviving the DB without doing serious damage to your body. Get yourself signed up for some lessons.

bassyeah · #14 06-15-2009, 07:40 PM

which brings me back to my search for a good luthier... I'm working on that.
I have talked to my electric bass instructor and he has studied and plays the DB... this is not his main instrument but it is a place to start... first things first though... get it in and have it looked over!
BTW... after I re-read your post you probablly mean the "body" of the bass... not my "body"... that's funny! I dont want any/serious damage there!

fdeck · #15 06-15-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassyeah

which brings me back to my search for a good luthier... I'm working on that.
I have talked to my electric bass instructor and he has studied and plays the DB... this is not his main instrument but it is a place to start... first things first though... get it in and have it looked over!
BTW... after I re-read your post you probablly mean the "body" of the bass... not my "body"... that's funny! I dont want any/serious damage there!

I mean your body, as in your hands, wrists, etc. The DB is dangerous if played incorrectly.

TroyK · #16 06-15-2009, 07:53 PM

You can fall into the deep vortex of string selection discussion in that forum, but I agree that it makes since to start with Spirocore Mittels for jazz. They are the benchmark string to which everything else is compared. If I were getting a new bass set up for jazz and I hadn't really heard it properly yet, I'd have a luthier set it up with Spirocores. Make adjustments from there.

As for teachers. There are about a billion great doublebassists/teachers in LA. Why not go to someone who does it full time?

Bass Barrister · #17 06-15-2009, 11:09 PM

My 1939 Kay S-8 is strung with Spiro Mittels and I'm very happy with the resulting sound. I think these would be a goos starting point.