I no longer need a heads-up on Christopher basses: got the Eastman, with pics...

[Basschair]

Hi all,

I'm going tomorrow to try out a few basses, including a Christopher 504 busetto, and to be honest am as giddy as a schoolgirl . Just before falling asleep last night, I remember one of the most basic flaws (what I consider a flaw) on basses I've tried, one that will keep me from buying a bass regardless of anything else. I absolutely love the neck on my Wilfer: it's nice and thin, Juzek-style, D, a fits my hand wonderfully. I'm wondering if anyone can give me an idea of the neck construction on Christophers, or at least an idea of the shape. Obviously, if there's too much wood I could have a luthier carve it down a bit, but I'd really rather not go that route.

So, and Christopher owners care to chime in on the shape of their necks?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Basschair

Hi all,

I'm going tomorrow to try out a few basses, including a Christopher 504 busetto, and to be honest am as giddy as a schoolgirl . Just before falling asleep last night, I remember one of the most basic flaws (what I consider a flaw) on basses I've tried, one that will keep me from buying a bass regardless of anything else. I absolutely love the neck on my Wilfer: it's nice and thin, Juzek-style, D, a fits my hand wonderfully. I'm wondering if anyone can give me an idea of the neck construction on Christophers, or at least an idea of the shape. Obviously, if there's too much wood I could have a luthier carve it down a bit, but I'd really rather not go that route.

So, and Christopher owners care to chime in on the shape of their necks?

Please allow a question. When you say the neck on your Wilfer is "nice and thin," how thin is "thin?" I don't mean to preach but a thin neck is not something I, personally, associate with "nice." As you may know, many newbies grab hold of an Engel or Kay and find their thin necks more pleasing. Those necks neither promote nor allow for a good left-hand "claw." I am making NO judgments about your Wilfer. I'm just trying to understand where it falls on the continuum and what are your preferences. How would you compare the neck on your Wilfer to those on other basses you have played, especially brands/models with which some of us might have experience?

[Basschair]

Absolutely (but only one)

Thin is definitely relative, and I don't mean to imply that it is skinny by any means. I've tried "cheaper" basses in the past few months: many plywoods, hybrids, and full-carved, and the necks that I've always favored I've been told are in the "Juzek" style. They are less wide overall, between the nut and heel, which for me allows equal access/leverage to all strings in the open through third positions. Also, these necks are somewhat thinner (between the back of the neck and the face of the fingerboard), which allows for the thumb to remain closer to the back of the neck while playing (versus forcing the movement of the thumb to the side of the neck when reaching for the E, which for me places a bit of extra strain on the wrist).

The basses I haven't liked have necks that are much wider and thicker, forcing my hand to open much further, and to move my thumb closer to the edge of the neck (near the fingerboard join) when playing on the E. These aren't issues with thumb position playing, but rather with third and below.

Originally Posted by drurb

Please allow a question. When you say the neck on your Wilfer is "nice and thin," how thin is "thin?" I don't mean to preach but a thin neck is not something I, personally, associate with "nice." As you may know, many newbies grab hold of an Engel or Kay and find their thin necks more pleasing. Those necks neither promote nor allow for a good left-hand "claw." I am making NO judgments about your Wilfer. I'm just trying to understand where it falls on the continuum and what are your preferences. How would you compare the neck on your Wilfer to those on other basses you have played, especially brands/models with which some of us might have experience?

[jimclark68]

B-chair,

Nothing beats shopping for a bass! I wanted to pass along my experience with necks, limited though it may be, but to encourage you, not contradict or argue your own needs/wants for a neck. I bought an Eastman last winter, and the luthier gave me a deal on it in part because the neck had not been shaved to a point that the luthier thought was reasonable. It was thick and meaty. From my end, it was even more extreme because I was playing an Engelhardt at the time, which as you probably know has a neck like a Precision Bass. I made the common mistake as a noob of thinking that a smaller neck would be more comfortable to my very small hands/fingers. To my surprise, and in validation of what experienced bassists say, the Eastman felt extremely comfortable, even given its hugeness. In fact, I have chosen to keep it as it is without having it shaved down some. So, for what it's worth, I found that a neck that I thought would be unplayable has turned out to be just the opposite. So I hope that the neck profile doesn't turn you off too much from an otherwise great bass.

Anyway, just my two pennies... good luck and enjoy yourself!

[Damon Rondeau]

I've got a hybrid Chrissie. I like the neck just fine, thickness and shape-wise. The thing that struck me most when I first played it was how nicely the neck was finished -- pretty much exactly to my liking. I'm not sure what product they're using, exactly. To this neanderthal woodworker it feels like about a half-pound cut (i.e., a thin solution) of shellac but I know it isn't. It's not got any glossy slickness to it and it doesn't seem to mark up much from hand gunk. Not after about 200 gigs on it, anyway.

I've not played too many DBs, but I've certainly played some that felt like Louisville Sluggers in comparison.

I know I like the feel of a nice thick, high-quality fingerboard. I wouldn't say that my Chris has one of those, but the board I bought from Wil de Sola and put on another bass sure feels great. I guess you can't really "feel" a thick fingerboard when you're playing it -- there must be some psychological aspect in play there...

[Basschair]

Thanks for your thoughts Jim. I understand where you're coming from, and I wouldn't mind a neck that was a tad bigger than that on my current bass. It really isn't a small neck by any means: I just don't want one that is huge , and am wondering if Christopher ships theirs with necks that have not been taken down at all, or if they send them out already carved down. The dealer I'm going to visit tomorrow will probably have an Eastman or two to try as well, so hopefully I'll get a chance to get an idea of the size you're referring to...

Originally Posted by jimclark68

B-chair,

Nothing beats shopping for a bass! I wanted to pass along my experience with necks, limited though it may be, but to encourage you, not contradict or argue your own needs/wants for a neck. I bought an Eastman last winter, and the luthier gave me a deal on it in part because the neck had not been shaved to a point that the luthier thought was reasonable. It was thick and meaty. From my end, it was even more extreme because I was playing an Engelhardt at the time, which as you probably know has a neck like a Precision Bass. I made the common mistake as a noob of thinking that a smaller neck would be more comfortable to my very small hands/fingers. To my surprise, and in validation of what experienced bassists say, the Eastman felt extremely comfortable, even given its hugeness. In fact, I have chosen to keep it as it is without having it shaved down some. So, for what it's worth, I found that a neck that I thought would be unplayable has turned out to be just the opposite. So I hope that the neck profile doesn't turn you off too much from an otherwise great bass.

Anyway, just my two pennies... good luck and enjoy yourself!

[Damon Rondeau]

Let us know what you think. I'd be interested in knowing where the Chris is on the spectrum.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

Let us know what you think. I'd be interested in knowing where the Chris is on the spectrum.

Definitely: I am determined to come home with my second bass tomorrow, unless there just isn't a good match for me. I'm definitely biased towards the busetto shape, but will force myself to keep an open mind.

Pics and descriptions to come...

[Devils Creek]

Just a short observation...

I've only had 2 DB's, the first being a Strunal ply, which I found just too big and clumsy for any kind of speed. I've played many Kays and Engles which were too far the other way, (especially current Engle's).

One of the main factors in buying my Chris hybrid was the neck. I have found it too be just right for my style. Right thickness, width, but bear in mind the tapered fingerboard on the E, which could take some getting used to for Kay players.

[hdiddy]

Like Damon, I have Christopher Hybrid as well and like the neck just fine. Nice and smooth, not too thick not too thin. I played a couple Chrissy's when I bought mine. IIRC, all the necks are similar and I don't think they're taken down by the luthier once he receives it. I think my luth spent more time dressing the FB to eliminate buzz and I don't think he touched the neck at all.

However, If I use my teacher's Juzek as a basis, the necks are similar. I played an Eastman 305 last week and as Jim described, the neck is notably meatier. The chrissy is also certainly thicker than a Kay I once played at a jam. Yuk! Too thin!

Anyways, Mine's a bussetto (300 series) too, so basically you're looking at a high end version of my bass. I played a 400 series bass before I bought mine and that was nice too. However, I liked the feel of my particular hybrid and like the idea of durability of it being a hybrid as I am a major clutz. But 500 series? I think you will be quite pleased. Should have nice polish job on it, nice flames, good overall sound. I think you will like what you find.

Very nice! Sexy Time! [borat off]

EDIT: Btw CHAIRBASSCHIPPENDALE, I forgot you were in Stockon. Who are you buying the bass from? Alex Friedman in SF?

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

EDIT: Btw CHAIRBASSCHIPPENDALE, I forgot you were in Stockon. Who are you buying the bass from? Alex Friedman in SF?

Has my ex-stripper reputation followed me this far north?

Nope: Alex is a super cool guy, and I'll be taking my Wilfer to him for future modifications, including a Laborie endpin. Unfortunately, I'm financing this purchase, and he's a straight cash guy. I'm going with Bruce Sexauer (I think you brought him to my attention in another post) up in Petaluma, and will spend some time trying out what he has in stock. We've corresponded quite a bit, and he seems like a good guy, so it looks like a solid bet.

[hdiddy]

Ah, you're going to Sexauer! I've never dealt with him so please let me/us know what he's like. Thanks.

EDIT: BTW, here's Chairface Chippendale - the vilest of villains from "The Tick". Too bad they removed the video of that episode from YouTube or else you coulda seen it.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Ah, you're going to Sexauer! I've never dealt with him so please let me/us know what he's like. Thanks.

EDIT: BTW, here's Chairface Chippendale - the vilest of villains from "The Tick". Too bad they removed the video of that episode from YouTube or else you coulda seen it.

Nice! I forgot all about the tick, and must admit that I didn't catch the reference.

[christ andronis]

I've got a carved 600 series Chrissy. The neck thickness (or lack thereof) was a factor for me compared to my old Strunal hybrid UNTIL I replaced my endpin with the bent one from George Vance. For me, it made all the difference in the world as far as balance is concerned and my neck issues are no longer a concern. In every other way I am pleased with my purchase. I think you'll be extremely pleased with the Christopher basses both in playability and sound.

Enjoy

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by DARWIN RODEO

It's not got any glossy slickness to it and it doesn't seem to mark up much from hand gunk. Not after about 200 gigs on it, anyway.

I've not played too many DBs, but I've certainly played some that felt like Louisville Sluggers in comparison.

Now just a cotton pickin' minute there, Winnie. FYI, Louisville Sluggers are NOT "glossy and slick", but rather smooth and tapered. Why, if my LaScala had not already had a perfect neck when I got it, I would have gladly replaced it with a LS and the appropriate fingerboard. Maybe you tried George Brett's old one or something, eh? All gunked up with pine tar, no doubt.

Seriously, I have a friend who made the mistake of thinning down the neck on his old German bass too far. He later claimed that it was giving him all kinds of physical problems, and he ended up selling it recently. I don't know if the bass was responsible for his arm problems, but I know that neck always cramped my hand when I tried to play it.

Along those same lines, my first bass was an old original American Standard with a skinny little Stratocaster neck on it. I learned to play on it just fine, but when I got my first carved bass (a Czech factory bass with what at first felt like a a rounded off 4x4 attached to the body), I couldn't believe how huge that neck felt. After about a month, though, I found it much more ergonomic to play, as it basically released my thumb from even attempting to squeeze a note out and forced me to use arm weight and shoulder leverage to make the LH stops. Once that started happening, my sound went from thin and pinched to deeper, warmer, and much more sustained very quickly. Since then I have been an advocate of larger necks. YMMV, of course.

[Damon Rondeau]

Whoa, guess I used the wrong analogy there, Deputy Slugger. All I'm saying is I've got limited experience on which to base a rating of my Chrissie on the thickness scale. (Hey Toadie, there's a line for ya to pick up...) I did six sets of jazz with the thing yesterday, though, and my arm's still there (but my tone's still thin, I'll say that...)

This thread made me wonder about the asymmetric neck shape thing that's going on in the guitar world. Anyone doing any of that with DB? Does it make sense?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Maybe you tried George Brett's old one or something, eh? All gunked up with pine tar, no doubt.

You can't get away with criticising one of Kansas City's finest just because you added an . Leave George alone. He did absolutely nothing wrong. It wasn't his fault the Ump was a Yankee fan.


The neck on my Chrissy 100 is on the large size. Good thing I don't play it anymore.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by clink

Leave George alone. He did absolutely nothing wrong. It wasn't his fault the Ump was a Yankee fan.

[totally off topic]

No worries. I don't share that trait with that ump - I just didn't want Winnebago boy making disparaging remarks about the fatherland, as it were....we make lovely bats here. . As far as the brett thing, I never figured out how gooping up your bat was supposed to give anyone any kind of advantage at all. Steroids, I can see. But pine tar doping? ***?*

[back on topic]

Physically, the open spacing of the hand a bigger neck facilitates just seems less prone to tendon tension than a more narrow spacing. I can feel the tension of a narrow "C" shape in my hand just holding it in the air. And since I my first degree was in classical guitar, I can honestly say that that LH technique concept is radically different, so i can't imagine how an assymetrical neck would help on the bass, but what do I know?





* (It's possible that under the new profanity rules, I should have said "WT*?". I'll go check that out now so's I don't get an infraction...)

[christ andronis]

I thought Louisville Sluggers were all made in Japan now ??!!

[Chris Fitzgerald]

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