I wonder what this is....

[Stanley Design]

I found an add for a DB on a local used item website, here was the description......

Vintage instrument, probably from 1960s.

Solid-wood maple top, but entire instrument was painted white at some time and only partially stripped. The fingerboard and bridge are recently replaced, but the fingerboard needs to come higher (or bridge lower) for it to be playable for anything other than bluegrass or country music.

I was planning to spend some time in the shop to make this a piece to be proud of (and play!), but I simply don’t have the time. Asking $650

I emailed him asking for more information, any detailed markings, more pictures etc. Here's the only picture from the ad.



I doubt anyone can tell anything by the current picture, but I'll update when I get some more.

[Steve Killingsworth]

Generally tops aren't made of maple--backs and ribs but not tops. I'd be a little leery based on that info. If possible, it would be wise to look at the bass in person, or have a trusted bass-knowledgeble person check it out.

A few more picture of the scroll, heel, and f-holes might help some of the resident experts identify the bass.

That said, if it really is a carved top bass in decent condition, it might be a good deal. It could also turn out to be a money pit.

[Uncletoad]

It's got a shape like an American Standard. It looks like an expensive project. Sounds from the description like it's gonna need some work to play properly.

[Stanley Design]

Hoping that he just threw the new bridge on and didn't set the height, which would explain why the strings are high. Other than that, the only thing he really mentions is cosmetic, a fresh finish and a setup might be all it needs.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Stanley Design

a fresh finish and a setup might be all it needs.

That alone would cost way more than what you would pay for it. It might be worth it, then again maybe not.

[Stanley Design]

Think I should steer clear then? I'm new at this and am shopping for my first.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Stanley Design

Think I should steer clear then? I'm new at this and am shopping for my first.

Generally for your first instrument it's wise to purchase it under the guidance of a teacher or a luthier you trust who can help you find the best bass for your budget or help you figure out what budget you should have for what you are trying to accomplish.

Fixer uppers are long shots when you don't know much about the instrument or how it's built or what it costs to do different things it may need. Very knowledgeable people have gotten burned buying fixer uppers without considering the whole picture.

My last bass was looked at by several highly respected luthiers before I paid out money for it and I've got lots of time and acumen in this sort of thing. I wasn't willing to trust my pocketbook to my eyes alone.

That doesn't mean you can't score big on craigslist or other fixer upper places but the probability of a newbie scoring and not getting buried in the money before it's all said and done is probably not any better than winning the lottery.

If you can bring a luthier along or a teacher with good sense of things, or make the sale contingent on the inspection of a luthier or teacher before the sale it complete I'd run it down. If you go their just on your own with $600 in your pocket be prepared to lose it if the thing is junk.

Some people gamble $600 on one hand in Vegas so if that's your thing, go for it. You might get lucky.

[MIKMAN]

+1.
Nobody could say it better Uncle.

[Mike Arnopol]

Hate to disagree, but I've had great luck with fixer-uppers. I agree, Phil that it looks like an American Standard. Which is, in my book, a great bass. One thing that I would do if I was a newbee is pay a local bassist or experienced repair person to see the bass. If all it needs is bridge adjusters and a possible board dressing, the bass is a steal. It is playable with the goofy paint, and even if I was a newbee, stripping and revarnishing a bass is a doable project. If this was a very good solid caved bass----leave it to a pro to protect the value of the bass---but $650 for an American Standard is a steal. My first good bass was a 350 year old unfinished Italian bass that a Gypsy removed the finish and decided that it was faster and easier to remove the finish on the back with a belt sander. At the time it cost me a whopping $1500 to have it fixed up and varnished. (26 years ago) I sold it 10 years later for about $16,000. Recently I bought a "cowboy" Juzek bass. Great sounding carved bass, but with a very ugly sunburst finish. They actually made them that way.Cost me $600 and $600 to get it fixed up. Sold it for $3000 to a student who got a great deal and was thrilled. If that bass mentioned was in the Chicago area, I'd look at it.

[Mike Arnopol]

See if he can shine a flashlight into the f hole and see if there is a label.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I agree with Mike. Check the neck joint for any problems or prior repairs. Even with that, if it is an American Standard I would probably buy it.

[Stanley Design]

I think I'm going to pass on it, it's definitely a fixer upper with a lot more than I'm willing to tackle. Here's some pictures and a better description.....

Hi Todd,

There's not too much beyond what I said in the ad. Basically "lots of potential" and "lots of work" to get it back at its best.

Here's as much as I can think of ... (photos attached)

- The top is solid wood, but with two non-threatening cracks down toward the bottom
- The paint is only partially removed (most of the front, as you can see)
- the back appears to have a non-original "flat" portion for the bottom 80 per cent; probably someone that didn't like the original curved back
- the neck joint has a superficial crack, a very stable one mind you (i.e it's not going anywhere)
- the only real "playability" issue is that the neck was shaved down on the top in order (presumably) to get really high action for bluegrass (dumb idea, if you ask me); I was going to remove the fingerboard and put a fitted "shim" on the neck (and below the fingerboard position) to get it back up to its normal place; I still plan on doing this if no one buys it ... but it won't happen for a few months yet cause I travel too much and have kids, etc...

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I wouldn't recommend this to a person shopping for their first bass. It looks like a money pit.

[Uncletoad]

Well those keys don't look like American Standard...look a lot older than that. Which could be cool.

It's a really low bridge with sky high string height so the neck angle is bad. It probably needs a neck graft. Depends on how that neck fracture was repaired too. The whole thing could cost $500 to $1500 to get moving depending on stuff we can't see...or more.

I'm still thinking money pit.

[Mike Arnopol]

That's a solid wood flatback. German or Czech. I don't think it would be a good buy, even though it's a solid wood bass, but I'd have to see it up close because of the back. There are obviously some cracks, which is normal. Old flatbacks should only be purchased by experienced guys. If the bracing is bad, it's a big expense, because the back has to be removed and braces redone. Likely a 2 grand job. But the back may be ok, but this could only be judged by a REALLY experienced guy.
The doofus work on the neck is doable. What the moron did was shave the back AND front of the neck and then add a shim because they went too far. As long as the scroll area is strong, more maple could be laminated to the top to get the board angle right. This is definately a bass to take a pass on. Due to the cheap prices of Chinese and Romanian carved basses, the price of lower end German and Czech basses has come down. If I could tell from the pics that this bass was a butchered Italian or English bass, even with the problems, I'd probably be catching a flight out there. But for what the bass might ultimately be worth, the repairs likely wouldn't be worth it. Funny thing is---these days an American Standard plywood bass would likely be worth more than a solid flatback beater.

[ClassicalBassNY]

I want to know more about this 350 year old bass mentioned.

[Mike Arnopol]

Oh man, I looked closer and it's neither. It's a Tyrolean bass, what is often referred to as a "blockless wonder" Fabulous sounding basses, but with 2 big inherent problems. First, they don't have neck blocks. Which means that to reset the neck the top has to be removed and a neck block added. BIG expense. Second, the bass bars are often integral to the top which means that for the bass to be healthy and sounding it's best, it needs a new bass bar. These basses can sound phenominally good. There are a lot around. It's what Neils Pederson played. The word on them was "Italian sound at a fraction of the price" I've owned a few. I got one for a few hundred bucks and had a block and bass bar put in. Back then (20 some years ago) it was about $1200. So now you could figure about $3k. Plus another $800 bucks for the neckwork. And it might need back work. So it's still a pass, but Tyrolean basses like this can fetch $10k or more. Risky business. What gives it away is the hump on the ribs at the neck joint. Should've noticed it first thing.

[Uncletoad]

Yea, good eye.

I think it would cost more than that though. A routine neck graft alone would be $1500 or more, but the top has to come off and the neck blocks done. To do that right add $3K+. Plus a board and the bridge and whatever is inside you can't see. Still after that you have to refinish it.

Money pit.

[Stanley Design]

I'm going to tell him that I'm passing, but going to ask him if he knows of any used Engel's or anything in the area, he's only about 5 hours away, which would be around the same area of the closest luthier. I was told there's a luthier very close to me, but he only works in the 15,000-20,000 pricerange and doesn't do repair work.

[salcott]

".....there's a luthier very close to me, but he only works in the 15,000-20,000 pricerange and doesn't do repair work."

What DOES he do?