Insurance; how does it work and what can you do with it?

PRUNEFACE · #1 05-10-2011, 04:48 PM

My Kolstein arrived home much to my joy. However it is damaged quite badly and now we have to ship it back -what does the insurance allow for? Do you get an entirely new bass up to the insured value? Does it pay for a repair of my (now damaged) bass? What are my options?

Edit: I have contacted Mr Kolstein -but he had left by the time we called and I looked over the bass.

Steve Swan · #2 05-10-2011, 05:22 PM

My one experience with a badly damaged new $9,000 bass happened when a trucking shipper took the upright carton off of the pallet that it was attached to, laid it down on its back, and then piled a bunch of boxes on top of it, crushing the top and parts of the sides. On the 90th day, the shipping company, a small local trucking company, finally admitted fault after stonewalling my relentlessly persistent letters and phone calls. I made back my wholesale cost and probably shortened my life by about 3 years. It was pretty awful.

On your end, Kolstein is in a much better position to replace your bass at his own wholesale cost. Did the bass arrive in those heavy wooden crates filled with styrofoam peanuts that they used to use? These were exceptionally safe, if a little expensive to ship. The shipper would have to really work at it to injure a bass on one of these.

Good luck!

PRUNEFACE · #3 05-10-2011, 05:33 PM

It was shipped in a Kolstein flightcase. And it is insured at a good bit more than 9k so I dont know whether that makes things better or worse as far as the solution goes.

ole Jason · #4 05-10-2011, 06:00 PM

Who was it shipped with? In a lot of cases the shipper (Kolstein) has to file the claim and do most of the leg work to get a reimbursement from the shipping company.

Eric Swanson · #5 05-10-2011, 06:24 PM

In the past year (unfortunately) I have been through claims for both a bass and a bow.

I had never been through this before. I got very helpful guidance from local luthier Jed Kriegel, who, in addition to being a superb bass mechanic/wizard, has much experience with such things. At the higher levels of bass repair, apparently, much work is financed (appropriately) with insurance dollars:

Here's how it worked:

- I alerted the insurance company, first, and filed a claim. This was done over the phone in about five minutes.

- They told me to take the object to a reputable repair person (luthier or bowmaker, etc.) for a written estimate and photographs.

- I submitted the estimate and the photos to the insurance company, via email.

- They decided what to do. Whether the object was repaired or replaced was purely a function of the repair estimate vs. the replacement cost vs. the deductible (in the case of my policy, I had no deductible). Don't forget to factor in the reduced value of the object, if applicable. For example, my former bass developed a split top table that, even repaired, would knock the resale value of the bass down considerably. So, "value after repair" needs to be considered.

In both cases, everything worked out well. When my bass was totaled, I eventually ended up with a much better instrument. When my bow was heavily damaged, insurance paid for a full restoration. It just took a little patience, a little time, and a bit of paperwork. If there is some deductible involved, who absorbs that cost may be worth discussing and/or negotiating (with Kolstein's shop).

It seems likely that the Kolstein firm would have much experience with this sort of thing. I wish you the best of luck working it out with them. As you already have a call into them, it may well all be resolved tomorrow.

My experience was that being polite, cool, persistant, and thorough worked best. Note that Steve Swan mentioned being "relentlessly persistent..."

You may need to make many phone calls, follow up calls, etc., but hopefully, it will all work out...

PRUNEFACE · #6 05-10-2011, 08:21 PM

well I am planning on calling Mr Kolstein tomorrow. Hopefully it will work out.

crowsmengegus · #7 05-10-2011, 09:05 PM

Sorry about your loss.

I know someone who is selling a Kolstein Maggini (one that was recently used to win a job in a major orchestra no less). I don't know if insurance would work that way, but PM me if you want the info.

Hopefully Kolstein will take care of things without much hassle.

PRUNEFACE · #8 05-10-2011, 09:42 PM

Crowsmengegus, was he, by any chance, a member of the Grand Rapids Symphony?

crowsmengegus · #9 05-10-2011, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRUNEFACE

Crowsmengegus, was he, by any chance, a member of the Grand Rapids Symphony?

Nope.

PRUNEFACE · #10 05-10-2011, 10:03 PM

Ah, as that was the only other Maggini that I have heard of (it's apparently mine's twin)

ole Jason · #11 05-10-2011, 11:25 PM

Are we talking about shipping insurance or instrument insurance? If you're making a claim with the shipping company you won't incur paying your deductible, which you obviously would with an instrument insurance claim.

PRUNEFACE · #12 05-10-2011, 11:54 PM

I know for a fact I have instrument insurance; however, Kolstein may have had me get shipping insurance as well. Will have to see.

Bass Barrister · #13 05-11-2011, 11:53 AM

What do you mean by "Kolstein may have made me get shipping insurance . . ." Did you not verify this before having the bass shipped?

Was this bass shipped in your trunk or in Kolstein's trunk?
Was it shipped via truck line to a freight terminal near you?
Did you notice any outward damage to the case at the time you received the bass?
Did you open the flight case at the terminal (if that'w where you picked it up) to determine the condition of the bass?
Did you report the damage to the outside of the case and/or to the bass at the terminal? Was any documentation made of this?
Have you contated Kolstein yet?

Please don't answer these questions here. These are matters that are between you, Kolstein and the shipper. I don't know what your agreement with Kolstein was but this will be what determines their liability, if any. Kolstein is a reputable establishment - they will fulfill their obligations, to the extent they exist. I suggest that plastering this all over the 'net is not the best way to go about it.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Basses are fragile. Stuff happens. That's what insurance is for. The word to the wise here is to make sure you what coverage exists for what and who has liability.

Good luck. I hope it works our for you. I know this is a tough, err "break" and I'm not trying by any means to give you a hard time. I just think we all need to anticipate these things and be prepared in advance.

spoonido · #14 05-11-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRUNEFACE

well I am planning on calling Mr Kolstein tomorrow. Hopefully it will work out.

We're all waiting to hear what happens next.

PRUNEFACE · #15 05-11-2011, 07:04 PM

Mr Kolstein is on top of it. We are waiting for him to see the bass to see if it is salvageable. And B.B., are you an actual "barrister"? If you are kudos to you, if not... You've got too much time on your hands

just kidding of course.
But anyways, back to what I intended to be the original topic:
When a bass is badly damaged and requires a major repair (such as an entirely new neck) is it better to simply get another instrument in certain situations? I LOVE how my bass sounds (sounded?) and if it requires something like a new neck -would that drastically change the sound? (I am under the presumption that it absolutely would)

Eric Swanson · #16 05-11-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass Barrister

What do you mean by "Kolstein may have made me get shipping insurance . . ." Did you not verify this before having the bass shipped?

Was this bass shipped in your trunk or in Kolstein's trunk?
Was it shipped via truck line to a freight terminal near you?
Did you notice any outward damage to the case at the time you received the bass?
Did you open the flight case at the terminal (if that'w where you picked it up) to determine the condition of the bass?
Did you report the damage to the outside of the case and/or to the bass at the terminal? Was any documentation made of this?
Have you contated Kolstein yet?

Please don't answer these questions here. These are matters that are between you, Kolstein and the shipper. I don't know what your agreement with Kolstein was but this will be what determines their liability, if any. Kolstein is a reputable establishment - they will fulfill their obligations, to the extent they exist. I suggest that plastering this all over the 'net is not the best way to go about it...

+1 Based on my recent experience, these are relevant questions and comments. Well written, IMHO.

Having been through similarly severe damage, recently, I wish the best of luck to the OP, in resolving this equitably, privately, and professionally.

To address the repair/tone concern, how the repair(s) affect the sound will largely depend on the nature of the injury, the identity of the luthier, and the degree of skill and care they bring to bear on the instrument. A talented, thoughtful, skilled luthier may be able to improve the sound/playability, while they are in there working, "under the hood" (so to speak). Crudely wrought/ill-considered repairs are less likely to help the sound/playability; well-done repairs may truly improve it.

crowsmengegus · #17 05-11-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRUNEFACE

Mr Kolstein is on top of it. We are waiting for him to see the bass to see if it is salvageable. And B.B., are you an actual "barrister"? If you are kudos to you, if not... You've got too much time on your hands

just kidding of course.
But anyways, back to what I intended to be the original topic:
When a bass is badly damaged and requires a major repair (such as an entirely new neck) is it better to simply get another instrument in certain situations? I LOVE how my bass sounds (sounded?) and if it requires something like a new neck -would that drastically change the sound? (I am under the presumption that it absolutely would)

I'm sure your bass with new neck will sound more like your bass than a new bass.