Interesting Heads and Fivers

R Sturm · #1 12-19-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

Dude, where's the pictures????

I want to see this one. The Wilfer fivers contribute to GAS. Start a new thread and put some photos in there. I want to see how close it is to my Kremona 5-er. I'm thinking that Wilfer would be a major cool bass. I've drooled over those in the Lemur catalog for years.

Here is my Wilfer/Goetz Lionhead Fiver, I really like something that's a bit different from the usual scroll. Lions seem to be the most common carvings, I've seen one dragon on a bass before and (on fiddles) people. Anybody got something else interesting?

The wood is particularly beautiful, nicer than what I have seen on other Wilfers. The bass was custom ordered by a professional orchestra player and was his main orchestra bass (he had 3 other basses for jazz and casual gigs) until his death. Strangely, it is branded Gotz and yet comes with a certificate from Gotz saying that it was made by the Wilfer brothers. I recently had the fingerboard reshaped by Lisa Gass to improve the bowability, get adjusters in, and lower action (the original orchestra setup was too manly for me). The scale is standard 42 and the dimensions are 3/4 (upper bout a bit under 20, lower under 26, depth 8 1/2) so I guess you can be a professional symphony player and even have a fiver without making it monster size. The combination of wood, carving, and sound won me over, even though I otherwise would prefer an even smaller/lighter/short scale bass and would be happy with 4 strings.

KSB - Ken Smith · #2 12-19-2007, 02:54 PM

Pretty Bass. On the Depth, is that the Ribs only or including the Top and Back?

R Sturm · #3 12-19-2007, 03:30 PM

8 1/2 is the full depth, including top and back, not sure if you would consider than shallow for an orchestra bass and five-stringer. I have no comparison to great orchestral basses, so no idea if it would live up to your standards. My comparison group is more the typical Eastern European factory basses, there are a few Czech, Romanian, and Germans in the neighborhood, and this one is in a different league for sound, material, and workmanship. I did a few concerts playing Haydn and Vivaldi with it, the only bass, and it held up very well against the other strings, but I'm not a really a classical or orchestral player.

KSB - Ken Smith · #4 12-19-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Sturm

8 1/2 is the full depth, including top and back, not sure if you would consider than shallow for an orchestra bass and five-stringer. I have no comparison to great orchestral basses, so no idea if it would live up to your standards. My comparison group is more the typical Eastern European factory basses, there are a few Czech, Romanian, and Germans in the neighborhood, and this one is in a different league for sound, material, and workmanship. I did a few concerts playing Haydn and Vivaldi with it, the only bass, and it held up very well against the other strings, but I'm not a really a classical or orchestral player.

Ok, that is the wrong way to measure the Bass. Only the Ribs inside the Top and Back equal the depth. Some dealers do it your way to make people think it has a bigger sound. Actually, deeper ribs alone don't make more sound. Measure the Rib depth only without the Top or Back. Measure it at the lower Block, the C bout , upper Bout and at the Neck.

Here are some examples of my Basses measured;
Rib Depth: 8 3/4" gradually tapering to 6 3/8" at the Neck (Bisiach)
Rib Depth: 9" (Tapering to 6 3/4" at the Neck) (Pollmann)
Rib Depth: 8 1/2"-8 1/4" (LB), 8 1/4"- 7 3/4" (MB), 7 3/4"- 6 1/4" (UB), Gradually Tapered (Euro 5)
Rib Depth: 8" (Upper Bout tapers from 8" to 7 1/2") (Gilkes)
Rib Depth: 7 7/8" (Upper Bout tapers from 7 7/8" to 6 5/8") (Martini)
Rib Depth: 7 7/8" tapering to 5 1/4" at the Neck (Hart)
Rib Depth: 8 1/2" - Upper Bout tapers from 8 1/2" to 5 3/4" with slope of the Back to the Neck Block. (Mystery English)
Rib Depth: 8 1/2 " (Upper Bout tapers to 6 1/2" at the Neck ) (Prescott)
Rib Depth: 7 1/2" (Upper Bout tapes to 6 1/4" at the Neck) (Dodd)
Rib Depth: 7 3/4" tapering to 5 3/4" at the Neck (Storioni)

None of the measurements above include the Top or Back. Rib depth is just that, Rib Depth, the pieces of wood used to make the Ribs only. Most of the Basses with shallower Ribs are the actual louder deeper sounding ones. Go figure!

R Sturm · #5 12-19-2007, 05:04 PM

Then it is 7 3/4 tapering to 6 1/2

CPike · #6 12-20-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Sturm

I've seen one dragon on a bass before and (on fiddles) people. Anybody got something else interesting?

My '77 Pöllmann has a lovely lion's head. It's kind of a cartoonish gargoyle style lion, with sad droopy eyelids and a big fat tongue sticking out. It sounds ridiculous but it's quite pretty. When I first entered college, another bass player there told me of a bass she saw that had Snoopy for the scroll. That got me thinking - someone should make a set of four matching basses with Ninja Turtle scrolls...

Silversorcerer · #7 12-20-2007, 03:33 PM

Thanks for bringing back some photos! I knew it was going to be gorgeous. That top grain and finish is truly sweet. A few days ago, I was in Baran's over in Decatur and he had a very nice 4-string Wilfer with a similarly finished top. It was easily the best bass in the shop by my ear, and priced just under 15K. It evidently had very low mileage, but was broken in well and very responsive.

Your bridge spacing looks well done. Just curious as to how much space there is between string centers at the bridge?

KSB - Ken Smith · #8 12-20-2007, 04:35 PM

Ok, here's two (one of each) that I no longer own..

The Lion was made by Jeff Bollbach. The 5er was actually a large Hungarian (we believe) Bass that was made as a 4-string but a perfect candidate to convert into a 5er. The sound was huge as were its measurements.

R Sturm · #9 12-20-2007, 05:31 PM

The Bollbach is quite unusual, a friendly, smiley lion! I'd like to see the Poellmann (are all the German lions grim?). Mine tries to look fierce, shows teeth, no gentle smile (though, admittedly, cartoonish). Spacing between strings (center-center) now exactly 1 inch.

KSB - Ken Smith · #10 12-20-2007, 09:00 PM

How about some old Tails with some originality?

KSB - Ken Smith · #11 12-20-2007, 09:05 PM

How about those Buttons?..

BRIDGE · #12 12-20-2007, 09:29 PM

Ken, is it my imagination or is the upper bout on that five-string Hungarian bass you posted somewhat asymmetrical on the right side? It looks (to my eyes) as if the right shoulder is pointing outwards a little more at the 2-o'clock position. Though it could just be my mind playing tricks on me.

I think I have seen other basses like this as well.

R Sturm · #13 12-22-2007, 06:30 PM

Probably the most famous carved head bass in music is Charles Mingus' EH Roth. It probably started its life off with a regular scroll and somebody made it more interesting (see picture below). Not necessarily very artistic (check out those ears, leftover from the original scroll I guess), but interesting. That bass is also on some of Mingus' album covers.

So far still no other pictures of carved heads on a 5-string other than my Wilfer/Gotz. Anybody got one?

Asetta Strings · #14 12-23-2007, 06:58 AM

Here is Rudolph Wilfer proudly displaying one of his lion's head scrolls. He shared the secret of the lion's head scroll.

www.mikeasetta.com

R Sturm · #15 05-30-2008, 05:11 PM

Here in contrast is a Poellmann lion. Seems a bit more cartoonish, especially if compared against the pics of mine above, although neither one looks that much like a real lion. From the side, my scroll looks a tad dragon like. I like the look of mine better, actually like everything about the bass except the extra string and consequently the big neck, but that is enough that in the long-run either I convert it to a 4 or sell it.