Italian Bass - help me identify

[bkm0004]

Hi guys,

I recently had this appraised by a very reputable luthier as a northern Italian bass, circa 1860, maker unknown. It's a bit of an unusual instrument so I thought maybe someone out there has seen something like it before. Any ideas?

front - 4 piece spruce
back - 2 piece clear poppler
sides - poppler
scroll and neck - maple, and no reason to believe the scroll in not origional. French gears, which furthers the argument that it's from norther italy.

no perfuling

unusual f-holes, small holes and proportionally wide middle

good luck!

[bkm0004]

here's the scroll and left f-hole

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Why are you certain this is an Italian Bass? I am curious what led to that attribution. Not every odd mystery Bass has to be Italian.

I have seen many German Basses as well as Hungarian that have passed for Italian basses. Also, plenty of British Basses floating around as Italians as well. Some attributed Italian Basses also come from Spain, Sweden, the Dutch makers and just about any other part of Europe that has made Basses.

The French Gears mean actually nothing and I would be surprised if they are original to the Bass. I would like to see more pics of the Ribs, Scroll, peg box inside and the Top as well as the Back. The outer Cheeks already look to have been repaired or modified which are signs of gear changes at the least.

Also, fill in your profile if you expect people to respond freely (or for free) to your questions.

Did you have to pay for that 1860 Italian appraisal?

Are there any signs to the luthier that the shoulders were cut? Was this a luthier that restores old Basses regularly?

My first impression without seeing any more pics is an antiqued Hungarian Bass. The Gears look much older than the back by far. The Ferrarotti family made Basses with sloped shoulders in the late 19th -early 20th century but that wide shoulder capping is the sign of a cut Bass.

Bottom line, I can't tell from your pics posted if the Bass is old or new, antiqued or naturally aged. Sorry..

[Martin Sheridan]

I'm with Ken. I can't tell from the pictures. "Northern Italian" is often another way of saying Tyrolean. Italian basses are more often than not violin cornered, but as we see in another post on the Gagliano bass being auctioned at Skinners, there are notable exceptions. I've never seen a Gagliano bass that wasn't viol cornered. At first glance they look German.
The Italians often used Lombardy poplar for the sides and neck, but from the pictures the varnish looks more Germanic.
Although virtually no one was using very good varnishes during the mid 19th century.

[bkm0004]

I'll try to get some more pictures and put them up. The luthier that did the appraisal was Bill Merchant of New York, who had it for about 2 months to do some badly needed repairs. I didn't pay for the appraisal, actually I wasn't sure he was even writing one until I came to pick up the bass. He had the top off to replace the bass bar, and fix some warping of the top.

After all of his work he was fairly certain of it's origin, and went through a laundry list of why it probably wasn't german, or hungarian, but of course anyone that knows Bill knows that he speaks about a mile a minute so I missed most of it.

Like I said, I'll put up some new pics at some point and fill in my profile. Thanks for the help.

[Don Higdon]

I would expect Bill Merchant to know if it had been antiqued, especially if he had it open.