"Jazz Guitarron"?

Jack Clark · #1 08-17-2008, 06:42 AM

I'm an amateur who's having fun with a guitarron my wife gave me. I had a custom low E string made and it's now strung in fourths all the way across: EADGCF. A luthier made me a raised fingerboard to reduce the usual horribly high action of a Mariachi guitarron, and I added an endpin so I can play it in an upright position (usually sitting down).

I'm interested in learning some jazz and blues. Anybody had any experience playing around with one of these things like this?

lightningDolt · #2 08-17-2008, 07:30 AM

How about some pix? Are you considering Picking, Strumming or Bowing in the Upright position ? I have a WishBass I adapted for Upright position and it seems to work fairly well, with my limited abilities. Good Luck in your pursuit. !!

LightningDolt

Jack Clark · #3 08-17-2008, 09:44 AM

Hi, lighteningDolt-

I don't see either bowing or strumming as an option on the "jazz guitarron." Bowing is pretty much out because it's strung flat across, and even bowing the two outside strings would be tricky because of the shape of the thing: no scalloped area for the bow to go. Strumming, I can't even imagine. I'd have to invent all the finger positions for the chords, it'd be painful to try to hold the strings down with just fingerTIPS, and I think they'd sound like mud anyway. I'm just thinking of one-string-at-a-time pizzicato base lines--blues and maybe some jazz, if I can get that good.

I'm very much enjoying learning about base playing, even if I can't do it myself yet. During the '60s folk craze, I and everybody else played acoustic guitars, and we thought we knew chords. We didn't know chords; we only knew finger diagrams. I didn't start learning about chords until I began studying base.

I'll get my wife to take some pics as soon as she wakes up. How about some pics of your "WishBass"? I have no idea what that is, but I'm interested.

jflojazz · #4 10-10-2008, 10:20 AM

Hi I play Gypsy Jazz and eastern European folk music as well as latin stuff on my guitarron all over the place.
I love it , very loud full tone . I play guitarron professionally with my group vagabond opera though mostly I play upright.
Funny 99% of bassists who play the guitarron restring it like a ABG with a low E.
I feel this negates much of the advantages,
The ADGCEa tuning is marvelous anf ingenious once you get the hang of it and the volume is much improved as the body is not designed for a low E, but this is my perspective. also it requires a different technique to get the full bloom of the notes. anyway here are some pics
www.myspace.com/krivoswing

pbass2 · #5 10-21-2008, 04:24 PM

I use my guitarron for singer-songwriter stuff, hip hop, you-name-it--it's such a great sound. Wish I had more time to log in getting better on it--so physically challenging. I tried a few things over the years, but for me the traditional tuning and technique is the only way it really "speaks" out as big and bold as I want. But your concept sounds really interesting--would be curious to hear how it sounds set up like that!

TroyK · #6 10-21-2008, 04:49 PM

Either of you have any recordings? I've wondered about this from time to time. It would be cool to hear.

Gearhead43 · #7 10-21-2008, 05:11 PM

Traditionally, the Guitarron is played using alot of plucked octaves, which serves to re-enforce the low-end and sense of the fundamental note being played.

I have only heard and seen them played by local Mariachi groups and I think they sound amazing.

MR PC · #8 10-22-2008, 01:30 AM

That's right, and some of the larger bands use multiple Guitarron players.

It's a wonderful sound. I think that the Ernie Ball Earthwood Bass Guitar was patterned after the Guitarron, with adaptations for "El Norte" players of course. (Longer scale bolt on 4-string neck, flatback, ect) Really a great instrument, and I've known/seen a few pro upright players (Dave Holland, Jerome Harris, Jim Kerwin) who have accepted it as a substitute when an upright wasn't available on the road. Too bad they stopped making them. They sound better than any other ABG I've ever heard.

I dunno, I like the Guitarron for Mexican music the most. It seems clunkyy and tubby sounding for anything else, IMHO. It's specific to Mexican music culture. Gotta have those plucked doublestop octaves to make the instrument sound right.

Jack Clark · #9 03-06-2009, 04:53 PM

To JfloJazz and Mr PC-

You're both right, of course, that the guitarrón is best tuned and suited for the Mariachi music for which it was intended. What I'm doing with it is entirely off-label, and I have no delusions that it will ever replace any of the other bass instruments traditionally used for blues and jazz. I'm just having a gas of a time bending this thing into playing those genres of music. Part of the fun is in having to adapt techniques designed for other instruments to the guitarrón--like using my left ring finger instead of my pinkie when playing it like an upright bass. Probably the only reason I can get away with this project is that I'm only an amateur; I doubt that a pro could afford the time away from his traditional instrument to mess around very much like this--even a pro Mariachi guitarrónist. It's just a lot of fun, and I'm learning things about blues and jazz that I never knew existed.

Carl Johnson · #10 03-08-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jflojazz

...I play guitarron professionally with my group vagabond opera...
www.myspace.com/krivoswing

Jflojazz,

Tight band, your read player smokes. PO has a great music scene.

BPeder · #11 03-09-2009, 07:06 AM

Check out the band "Fairground Attraction". Their record "First of a Million Kisses" is all Guitarron in the bass parts. Cool sound. Unmistakable. Once you hear them you'll want more... kinda like The Creaking Trees Quartet. Happy hunting!

[edit: "The Creaking Tree String Quartet"]

TheCush · #12 03-11-2009, 05:06 PM

I've been interested in the guitarron for some time but haven't tried playing one. There are some really good examples of fine traditional playing on youtube.com. Just search on Guitarron. The technique employed is really amazing.

txstatebass · #13 03-14-2009, 11:09 AM

I love the sound of a guitarron! I had to learn to play one when I was Pledging (Hail Sinfonia!).

Jack Clark · #14 04-11-2009, 06:44 AM

lightningDolt: In response to your request, I finally got around to having several pix made.

Some of the pix show some serious work that our terrific local luthier, Alex Watson (http://www.watsonguitars.net), did for me--particularly a new nut to accommodate the restringing and a new, longer fingerboard that was installed on top of the original one so as to reduce the very high action and make it much more playable like an upright bass.

Other pix show stuff I did my self: mute, endpin, endpin stop, instrument stand (and dust cover), all of which came from my local hardware store. (Some of them make Alex cringe, especially the endpin. He wants to make me a nice wooden one.)

You can laugh at (or even be offended by) the instrument stand, if you want. But keep in mind that I am only--and always will be--an amateur, so I don't show my instrument off to anybody and I never have it on display, even at my home. This instrument stand--which is a Rubbermaid Roughneck model 2979 30-gal. rectangular trash container--is perfect in that neither the strings nor the machines ever contact the sides or anything else, and my guitarrón just happens to fit perfectly without wiggling a millimeter, lifts out with thumb and one finger, and is always at the ready for even just a few minutes of play whenever I get the chance. Good protection from bumps, too.

Jack Clark · #15 04-11-2009, 07:18 AM

You can only attach two photos to each comment, so . . . fingerboard detail and mute

Jack Clark · #16 04-11-2009, 07:26 AM

Endpin and stop

Jack Clark · #17 04-11-2009, 07:31 AM

instrument stand

Jack Clark · #18 04-18-2010, 10:06 PM

I modified my guitarrón so much since the original photos I posted that I've pulled those and posted photos of the finished project now at:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...=1#post9008762

tim bucknall · #19 05-29-2010, 06:31 AM

recently got my Guitarron and i wish i'd heard of them years ago,
amazing instrument
makes my ABG seem rather pointless but i'll prob keep it for travel because of the slim body

i won't be adding a low E anytime as it wouldn't resonate properly as a previous poster pointed out
but i'm often tempted to tune the high e up to an F

i mostly play Who & Nirvana songs on it
Entwistle hardly ever used his low e string before 1971 so his B-lines work well on a Guitarron

obviously I do the obligatory Walking on the moon

bowies "heroes" is in the right key too

i'd def advise anyone to get a Guitarron instead of an ABG

i play it upright for single note lines and like a guitar for chords or octaves