Just starting on upright...Renting a bass question.

**Mark Wilson** · #1 08-22-2007, 02:38 PM

I'm sure it's been asked a TON and mods, feel free to close. My computer is going too slow to do a search.

Anyway, I'm a Jazz Student and would like to rent an upright bass from Long and McQuade in Toronto.

Would it be a good idea to rent one? Or buy my own?
Also, how high should the action be set? On my electric basses, I have medium-low action if that matters for everything.

Thanks,

Mark

Jeff Moote · #2 08-22-2007, 02:52 PM

Hey Mark!

Congrats on doing the upright thing - I think it really opens a lot of doors in the Jazz world. I don't play jazz on DB, but I've been through the whole searching for an instrument thing...

I'd say definitely don't rent from L&M - those basses are crap. I think it's better to go to a real luthier, see what they have, and perhaps rent from them. I rented a ply bass when I started for a summer while I looked for something to buy. Eventually I bought a bass from that shop and they credited my rental toward that bass. That's why you should go to a reputable luthier.

In Toronto, check out Heinl's and maybe Soundpost. Here in Kitchener Riedstra's is good too and he has a few basses. I don't know what your price range is, either now or down the road (if you want to rent to own) but it's worth checking out all your options. PM me or message me on MSN if you want to know more about the shops I know in Ontario.

As for the setup, you'll find in time what is normal for a Jazz player. You know how crazy low I set my Roscoe basses, but the DB is another story. 7-8 mm for the G and 10 mm for the E is pretty normal, and higher not uncommon. With guts, double that. Some jazzers take Spiros down to 5mm on the G, but I think that's extreme. Setup is a very personal thing though.

**Mark Wilson** · #3 08-22-2007, 02:55 PM

Thanks Jeff, I'm messaging you right now!

**Mark Wilson** · #4 08-22-2007, 03:03 PM

Again, to anyone else.

Would it be a good idea to rent a crap upright while I save up enough money to get a half decent one for myself?

I mean, I don't want to lose out on experience with an upright.
I Have VERY little experience with upright. I played an Electric Upright in highschool, and was okay.

And, any suggestions on sizes? I know there are like 4/4, 3/4, 7/8 all that... I'm not quite following the differences.

Kevin Hsieh · #5 08-22-2007, 03:53 PM

Some places have a plan where you can "Rent" one and some of that rental fee goes to buying that instrument... just an idea.

You can probably get a great instrument over the length of time with that deal.

Check out the newbie links

Glad you want to try upright, it's a brand new world to me too but I love it.

As for sizes, go try some basses and whatever feels comfortable is usually what works. I'm 6 feet and ended up with a 7/8 ish bass without even knowing. I just found out today when trying to pack it into a 3/4 flight case that it's really darn big.

Whatever's comfortable and sounds good is the ticket

Blacksheep · #6 08-23-2007, 01:41 PM

The only instruments that Long - Mcquade will carry are Schoenbachs, which are bassically a generic no name brand. They are just cheap ply's, and they look and feel cheap. I was in the same situation as you earlier, (I live in Manitoba), and I opted to order an upton. First I chose a laminate, but then decided I might as well get a hybrid, because I am pretty dedicated to play. While that is on order, I cant start on DB, but the 3 extra months waiting to start is better than starting a garbage instrument I'd say.

I went to the Long-Mcquade in Brampton, and that's where I played this Schoenbach, which had a label that said it was made in Europe. But even after asking on this board, which is the best source to ask these days, no one had ever heard of these other than from Long-Mcquade.

I did enjoy playing all the Warwicks and Brampton L&M though.

vbass29 · #7 08-23-2007, 06:08 PM

For your size question - its really a personal taste and depends on the maker. I'm 5'10 and a 3/4 is perfect for me, however the issue for me is more the width of the bass and that varies from maker to maker.

I previously had a 3/4 Czech flat back bass, which was great (very easy to move around) but I had problems with seams and cracks as it was ~120 yrs old. My new bass is a 3/4 Klier, which I really enjoy playing as it has very narrow shoulders.

I play mainly classical on my upright, but also play some modern jazz accompaning guitar.

Bass Boy · #8 08-24-2007, 12:21 PM

Hi Mark,

You may also want to check around with some of the local guys in Niagara. Do you know Randy Stirtzinger, Rich Moore or Adrian Juras? I believe they are all still in the area. They usually know if there are any for sale privately or if anyone has some to rent. When I lived down there I had a few extra plywood Hofners that I rented out and lent to some of my students. There used to be a guy in Welland (I don't know if he is still alive) that had about 10 basses in his bassment at any given time. I bought three from him. One is still my main bass. They required a little overhauling but prices were good. (I bought one of my Hofners for $700- another $350 at Heinl for set/repair and I had a killer back up bass for flying) I used to kepp it at my parents house so when I came to visit I had something to practice on and gig with. I sold it to one of my students or you would be welcome to borrow it.

And to second another poster- those plywood basses from L&M are crap. (unless something has changed)

moles · #9 08-24-2007, 02:40 PM

Hmm - something may have changed at L&M. The DB that I have from them right now is a Strunal 50/4 full size ply. I will say that the setup was not good when I picked it up from them, but I brought it back and had them send it to their luthier. It's still not perfect, but not as dangerous to play - the
Anyone know if they just slap that "Schoenbach" label on every bass they carry maybe? All the new ones I've seen in Winnipeg - and one in Edmonton - has looked pretty much like a Strunal to me...although I'm sure I could mistake another gamba shaped DB for one. The other rental they gave me while the Strunal was out for setup was definately by another maker though.
Maybe bring a little flashlight and check in the f-hole for a label while you're there

**Mark Wilson** · #10 08-25-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass Boy

Hi Mark,

You may also want to check around with some of the local guys in Niagara. Do you know Randy Stirtzinger, Rich Moore or Adrian Juras? I believe they are all still in the area. They usually know if there are any for sale privately or if anyone has some to rent. When I lived down there I had a few extra plywood Hofners that I rented out and lent to some of my students. There used to be a guy in Welland (I don't know if he is still alive) that had about 10 basses in his bassment at any given time. I bought three from him. One is still my main bass. They required a little overhauling but prices were good. (I bought one of my Hofners for $700- another $350 at Heinl for set/repair and I had a killer back up bass for flying) I used to kepp it at my parents house so when I came to visit I had something to practice on and gig with. I sold it to one of my students or you would be welcome to borrow it.

And to second another poster- those plywood basses from L&M are crap. (unless something has changed)

Thanks for the reply.
The names ring a bell...I don't know if they're still around to be honest. Do you have their phone numbers?

RHayton · #11 08-25-2007, 10:35 PM

Renting is a good idea, but as stated, rent the best quality you can afford--cheap basses can kill the urge real quick, as they are not properly set up, have lousy tone, and are difficult to play. going to a reputable luthier should help solve most of this. The next most important thing is get a teacher--cannot stress this enough; a teacher will guide you through the critical introduction period to the upright, will keep you from learning bad habits that can result in damage to tendons and poor technique, and can help you set goals and then achieve them.

If you can't get a teacher right away, at least get a good study text--the best for Jazz is Rufus Reid's The Evolving Bassist. Walks you through playing jazz on the bass with pictures and exercises. Rufus recommends string height at G at 1/4 inch, D and A at 3/8 inch, and E at 7/16 inch, which is roughly 6 mm, 9 mm, 9 mm, and 11 mm.

Another great beginners book by the greatest jazz bassist of all time, Ray Brown, is Ray Brown's Bass Method: Essential Scales, Patterns, and Exercises. Both are available from Lemur Music at www.lemurmusic.com Brown's book is 13 bucks and Reid's is 30 bucks.

But, to repeat, if at all possible get a teacher.

andyroo · #12 08-25-2007, 10:42 PM

Mark, you're at Humber right? if so, you can always go to the music office and put down $50 to get a key to the Bass Modules (it's refundable on the return of the key). It gets you access to all of the school's upright basses, most of which aren't that bad. You can take them to the practice mods and to classes ensembles and everything too......just an option if your just starting on it.

**Mark Wilson** · #13 08-27-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyroo

Mark, you're at Humber right? if so, you can always go to the music office and put down $50 to get a key to the Bass Modules (it's refundable on the return of the key). It gets you access to all of the school's upright basses, most of which aren't that bad. You can take them to the practice mods and to classes ensembles and everything too......just an option if your just starting on it.

Thanks Andy,
Also, i'm pretty sure you're my RA and live around the corner from me.

But, it's 50 bucks?! Damn. I need some money.
I'll probably end up doing that though. Thanks!

**Adrian Cho** · #14 08-28-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

As for the setup, you'll find in time what is normal for a Jazz player. You know how crazy low I set my Roscoe basses, but the DB is another story. 7-8 mm for the G and 10 mm for the E is pretty normal, and higher not uncommon. With guts, double that.

Guts don't really need to be as high as people think. I play on guts and have done so for years and have 7 mm on the G and 10 on the E and get a huge sound out of my bass. It depends a lot on the bass (I've had higher string heights on other basses) and there's definitely a point at which going higher doesn't gain you anything (except more pain

).

Jeff Moote · #15 08-28-2007, 11:47 PM

I didn't mean that higher was a bad thing, and of course it's not necessary. I would say higher string height is typical with guts because they allow it - or at least benefit more than a steel string which may not move as much.

bass_snake · #16 02-03-2009, 08:05 PM

I actually have a rental Schoenbach bass from L&M right now.

It' s definitely garbage and wouldn' t rent one again.

I realized this after playing my teacher' s upright. Now I know the difference. I don' t like the feel of the Schoenbach and quality is not good either. Not loud enough to my liking.