???KAY or CLEVELAND????

[arseniotall]

Hey my kay is whoooped!!!
I need a new fingerboard, bridge, blah blah blah...
Its gonna cost me about a 1,000 to get it tightened up, but I was wondering if I should just put that 1,000 to a cleveland instead? This kay has been my main bass for my entire playing career(12 years). I have travelled around the world becasue of this Kay, but I keep hearing all these great things about the cleveland. I have owned carved, hybrid, but always end up selling them because of the sound of the Kay.

So....can anybody help me a little? If anybody has owned both could you list the pluses and minuses of the two. Don't worry I am not buying a carved bass. I am too rough on basses for that.

P.S. The Kay is an old 40's M-1

thankx in advance!

[Steve Swan]

From everything that I've heard about them, the Cleveland should be able to eat any Kay for lunch. With the money that Kay's are fetching these days, it sounds like an obvious decision.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

From everything that I've heard about them, the Cleveland should be able to eat any Kay for lunch. With the money that Kay's are fetching these days, it sounds like an obvious decision.

+1

[Uncletoad]

I have had four plywood basses, two Kays (a '66 and '55), a 40's Joe German and the Cleveland.

I sold both Kays. The Cleveland is my main bass and the Joe German serves as a backup.

I'm sure there are Kays that can kill a Cleveland but they'd be the exception rather than the rule.

The only consideration is Thumb position playing. Coming off a sloped shoulder Kay the the Cleveland can require some adjustment up there. I don't care but I've had some players complain about that when trying the bass.

I wouldn't trade my Cleveland for any Kay under any circumstances.

I know of one fellow who has been around here who stayed with an old Joe German instead of his Cleveland but that's the only time anyone I know of got rid of a Cleveland. I still don't understand that move.

[M Ramsey]

+10 on what the Toad said. If I were hunting a "new" bass, hands down it would be the Cleveland. I've only played 2. One was in the possesion of Dustin Williams (killer bass setup man in Nashville) and the other is owned by fellow TBer Dwight McCartney in the Seattle/Tacoma area.

Both basses were killer.

My son and I flew to Tacoma last February so he could do a show at Wintergrass. I had 2 American Standards and a Gretsch bass at the time. We were trying to figure out how to get a bass there since I didn't have a filght trunk and, after talking to a few folks who have flown, had given up on the idea.

We tried to get the Wintergrass folks to rent a bass from Hammond Ashley, but they had rented all they could for the weekend for other bass players coming into town. So, good ole Dwight offered his bass for Aaron to play. After the other players in town heard that bass, they wished they had gotten the chance to play IT.

I've almost entertained the idea of selling my 2 American Standards and getting a couple of the Clevelands. But not just yet.

[jlilley]

If that old Kay is really that special...$1000 to get it back in good playing order is a small investment to me. I love the New Standards as much as everyone else...but there is something about the old American basses. I've only played one NS, it was great...but I'm in no hurry to get rid of my American Standard.
Just my .02.
John

[bassame]

Originally Posted by jlilley

If that old Kay is really that special...$1000 to get it back in good playing order is a small investment to me. I love the New Standards as much as everyone else...but there is something about the old American basses. I've only played one NS, it was great...but I'm in no hurry to get rid of my American Standard.
Just my .02.
John

+1 and I am a happy Cleveland player.

[vier-personen]

well, I haven´t been neer to a kay nor a cleveland, I have only played one or two plywood basses that were very cheap and bad instruments.
but what I read from your sentence "always end up selling them because of the sound of the Kay" is that either your other two basses were really bad or there is some special magic between you and the kay. if that´s the case, I guess you should make the investment.
but go and try a cleveland, if that magic´s there, too, go for it!

I don´t want to critisize anyone who replied here, but often there is a virus in the air that is called "g.a.s", I really know what I am talking about. my own bass is also my first one, and it has a lot of cracks, the body is a little warped (cosmetics IMO), it has been repaired by not qualified people in the past, and from time to time I get G.A.S and go try other basses. I have tried instruments from 2000€-20000€ and while some of them were easier to play and prettier, they didn´t have the sound I was after, so I wouldn´t consider them an upgrade.
I also showed my bass to a lot of people, and I think that musicians that were serious liked my bass, luthiers (who deal with basses) and players that were looking for prestige with the instrument they own didn´t like my bass.
I haven´t seen a bass that I liked more yet - mine was 2000€ + I guess about another 1500€ in repairs and setup over the last 10 years, but this amount was worth it IMO.
as said before, I don´t know what a kay or cleveland really look like in person, I am just telling you the thoughts I have about buying instruments and what to look for in a new instrument.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by jlilley

If that old Kay is really that special...$1000 to get it back in good playing order is a small investment to me.

I totally agree with this. That's not much dough on a bass repair like adding a good ebony fingerboard and excellent bridge. The neckset should be usable or reasonable to spend that dough. I wouldn't do it if the neck has broken off and been repaired though.

I'm not recommending selling the Kay, or fixing it just sharing my experience with my Kay's and Cleveland. If my Cleveland got worn out to the point of needing a board and bridge I'd do it in a second. I would have never done that with the Kay's, but they weren't all that special.

I can't speak to the restorative potential of a bass I haven't played or seen.

If you are looking for support to buy the Cleveland you've got it, if you are looking for support to fix the Kay you've got that too.

Hows that for useless info.

[Randy Ward]

arseniotall;
The Cleveland and the Kay are different animals as Uncle Toad sez. I sort of think a La Scala might be closer to an M-1s shoulder shape. And I think vier-personen brings up some good points: Are you ready to move on or do you just have GAS. If you've never played a Cleveland or La Scala you can just read all the posts here to see how happy people are with the new standard line from Arnold and Wil.
But I recomend playing one.
Someone near you probably has a New Standard that you could check out. Checking out a Cleveland sold me on it and I thought it was worth the upgrade, the hassle of selling a bass and some gear for the music I want to make, and the tone/sound I am striving for.
Since we don't know where you are because of your mystery profile it will be tough for any one to volunteer to let you play their New Standard.

$1000.00 is not really much to get your KAY back in shape. On the other hand it could be a down payment on a New Standard and your Kay could be a great back up bass just the way it is.
Personally I love a good Kay and I’ve owned two, played many and hope to own another someday. But Now I just gig with my Cleveland.

[MollyKay]

IMHO the new Cleveland is a beautiful bass (I have yet to hear one in person) and the only new plywood bass I would consider…but I also love vintage American made plywood basses including Kay. Some of the old vintage basses have real MoJo, and some don’t. My old beat up Epiphone is by far the roughest condition, playable bass I have right now and it has REAL MoJo. If your Kay has that connection for you then dump the $1000 into it. If you don’t want to spend the money on your Kay contact me, I am taking in old American plywood’s that need TLC and a comfy place to retire.

Either way you decide you are going to get something new or something vintage and improved.

[Jeremy Allen]

I've owned a Kay (and played many others I didn't own), and I currently have a NS Cleveland. I don't really think they're in the same ballpark in terms of quality and sound production. I understand that Kays are cool and can definitely have some mojo, but I've played my Cleveland side-by-side with a couple of nice Kays and the Cleveland is always way out on top. It's the kind of bass about which even classical players will say "that has to be carved! You could take an audition on that!"

I think Kays are great, but I feel like they should be priced at about $1200 (which, I guess not coincidentally, is what I paid for mine back in 2000). Please, no lectures on economics--I get it--I'm just saying that if a Kay is going for $3500 (a pretty common price these days, from what I've seen) and a NS Cleveland is $4250, the choice of which to buy is pretty obvious to me.

[arseniotall]

yea i own several kays(welll my pops does) . I think mine is an exception. OUt of about 5 of em its the only one that is made in the 40's. The rest of them cant even come close. Thank you all for your help, its greatly appreciated. I believe i will repair the Kay. It got me this far

[Jason Sypher]

I've played over a hundred Kays and one Cleveland. For build, feel, fit, finish and sound....it's the Cleveland.

[D McCartney]

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

+10 on what the Toad said....

Thanks for the kind words, Mike. I missed seeing you guys this year at Wintergrass. If you get the chance, check out a band called Crooked Still. Saw them Saturday. Great fun.

ArsenioTall... I think the Cleveland and Kay are in different catagories. I have tried a number of Kay's, as well as
American Standards and King Moretone. My instrument has a lot of volume, but so do the Kays. I practice with a bow quite a bit, and pizz or bow, for me the NS tone is what I'm hooked on.

[almal]

has anyone heard the new standard la scala model? does anyone know someone near montreal quebec who owns a new standard bass? i'm in the market and i would like to find out what these basses are like.

thanks

[rdwhit]

Originally Posted by almal

has anyone heard the new standard la scala model? does anyone know someone near montreal quebec who owns a new standard bass? i'm in the market and i would like to find out what these basses are like.

thanks

I play a La scala hybrid. Do a search & You will find lots of info about them in here. Go to the New standard web page & contact Arnold & see if he sells them through anyone in Your area. He is very helpfull with questions. What bass are You playing now? You will find nothing but rave reviews about them. I believe they are among the best in their class, maybe THE best. Weigh in here fellow La Scala owners

[Marcus Johnson]

What more can I say, everyone knows I love my La Scala! Buying it changed my life, actually.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

What more can I say, everyone knows I love my La Scala! Buying it changed my life, actually.

True. He used to be Mabel Johnson. Now he has a real Johnson.

[mesmithnm]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

True. He used to be Mabel Johnson. Now he has a real Johnson.

I can't believe the filter missed that one! I am SO offended by Joh****