Kiso Suzuki

[e.maynard]

So I've found this Suzuki Bass.
Supposedly it was made in 1965 and is a replica of a 1720 Antonio Statavarius. I don't know.

In my quest for a first bass, and not being drawn in by the super shiny Chinese Basses (looks wise), I saw this.

It's a 5/8 which is kind of a downer (I'm 6'2"). But maybe not such a big deal.

It's a bit of a drive away from me so I thought I'd run it by the smart folks here first.

From the pictures, it looks like the (3 piece) neck has been repaired at the heel. Other than that it looks pretty together.

Please advise me.
PS: They're asking way south of $1K.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by e.maynard

So I've found this Suzuki Bass.
Supposedly it was made in 1965 and is a replica of a 1720 Antonio Statavarius. I don't know.

Well, Stradivarius never built a bass. This looks more like a replica of a Kay C-1 from the same period.

Originally Posted by e.maynard

It's a 5/8 which is kind of a downer (I'm 6'2"). But maybe not such a big deal.

I don't know who would call this a "5/8." Those terms actually don't mean much as sizes are not really standardized. The bass does not look like it has an unusually large body so what's important is the string length. I'm gonna guess that it's 41-42" and that's what anyone would call a "standard 3/4" bass.

Originally Posted by e.maynard

It's a bit of a drive away from me so I thought I'd run it by the smart folks here first.

From the pictures, it looks like the (3 piece) neck has been repaired at the heel. Other than that it looks pretty together.

Please advise me.
PS: They're asking way south of $1K.

Hard to say. The neck repair would scare me and I suggest that you not shell out any $$$ until you can have the bass looked at by a qualified luthier. If it checks out, you may end up with a serviceable plywood bass for not too much outlay. I'd say that way south of $1k is about right.

[Francois Blais]

My very first bass, in 1980, was also a Suzuki.
It had violin corners though. Yours has the gamba shape.

The neck heel repair *must* have been done well.
If you can bring it for inspection to a qualified luthier, the better.

The fingerboard is blackened maple.
You could want to change it too. (rosewood is okay; ebony better)
Otherwise, you'll soon see ruts under the strings.

It seems to be strung with Super-Sensitive Red Labels.
These are stiff and metallic sounding.
Another thing to replace.

Personally, I wouldn't invest more than about $500 on that bass, and only *IF* the neck repair is well done...

To me it looks more like a Kay, but if the label says Suzuki...

[ROCKWOOD]

drurb wrote: "Well, Stradivarius never built a bass. This looks more like a replica of a Kay C-1 from the same period."

Back in the middle seventies my jr high orchestra got to see "the worlds best double
bass player". I can't remember his name. He said he was playing the only double
bass that Stradivarius made. Then again, he also claimed to have invented the wagon
wheel endpin too. Oh well.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by ROCKWOOD

drurb wrote: "Well, Stradivarius never built a bass. This looks more like a replica of a Kay C-1 from the same period."

Back in the middle seventies my jr high orchestra got to see "the worlds best double
bass player". I can't remember his name. He said he was playing the only double
bass that Stradivarius made. Then again, he also claimed to have invented the wagon
wheel endpin too. Oh well.

Well, Rocky, do a search here and you just might find many of the posts I have read over the years. To the best of my knowledge and the knowledge of some quite respectable double-bass historians, Stradivarius never produced a bass. Never. The player you heard in junior high was either misguided, stretching the truth, or both. When basses are labeled as "copies" of a Strad it is usually just a generalized marketing strategy that, at best, indicates that the maker has attempted to copy the general Strad instrument shape or style. It's little more than hype.

[e.maynard]

Originally Posted by Francois Blais

To me it looks more like a Kay, but if the label says Suzuki...

Those tuners look odd (the plates especially), and, did Kay make 3 piece necks like that?

Thanks!

[GerardSamija]

In none of the considerable literature I've studied on Stradivari is any mention made of his having made a single bass. The 'church bass' is a different story - he made a number of these before the last one, the Servais as it became known, in 1701. By church bass was meant a rather larger cello, about 2 to 3 inches in body length and otherwise generally a bit bigger than the modern standard cello. The smaller size (about 29.5" body length) was already becoming established among a few other Italian luthiers by that time, but Antonius continued to hold onto the larger bass-ish form a little longer, probably because the lower register just sounded so rich and was so useful for processionals as the largest fiddle one could strap on and play while walking. The advent of the cello soloist was slow in coming, but by that time was underway at least, so the smaller instruments took over.

Stradivari made a number of instruments besides his most famous violins, violas, and violoncelli. A guitar or two still exist, and a harp. It seems he was an incredibly productive maker, and often repairer of instruments besides. Of course he had 4 sons by 2 wives and all served as apprentices, besides several other later-famous apprentices from outside the family. They helped a great deal in getting the 1600+ instruments of his name out the door. Still, with all that productivity it seems there is no trace of any moulds nor his famous paper patterns to indicate any true doublebass/bass gamba work being done.

The name was of course adopted by many production houses in Europe in the later 19th century as a sales tool, for by that time Stradivari had become quite well known as a name at least among the common folk. So a $2 catalogue fiddle in 1890 bearing his name (or that of Stainer or Guarnerius or a few other makers of great repute) would sell much more readily than the same fiddle wearing a generic 'fabrique en Mirecourt' sort of label. And this commercial success, to the tune of millions of cheap junk fiddles (and the odd decent one amongst them) carried on even after the interruption of WW1, well into the modern era. There are still Korean and Chinese and Eastern European instruments carrying the name, no matter how little resemblance there may be to his actual designs. The most common single trait to bear any resemblance at all is the f-holes, and even there it is most often only a grossly simplified cartoon-ish rendition of his subtle forms. A sort of averaging of many of his cut-outs, added without understanding of the infinite care with which he placed and cut every one differently according to the fiddle in hand.

[drurb]

Thanks Gerard! So, as I said, Stradivarius never...

[txstatebass]

Oh yeah, and: 3,006

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by e.maynard

Those tuners look odd (the plates especially), and, did Kay make 3 piece necks like that?

Thanks!

The plates are similar to my Suzuki, if I remember well...
Mine didn't have a three piece neck either...
Strange...

[e.maynard]

Originally Posted by txstatebass

Oh yeah, and: 3,006

Oh yeah, and: Thanks for your insight as well.

[GerardSamija]

As I understand Suzuki history, which admittedly isn't a lot, the old guy took his show on the road quite a bit. By that I mean he tried setting up manufacturing in various countries around Asia for a long time, with many Suzuki instruments coming from Korea, Japan, China, and elsewhere I think. He also experimented a lot with materials and production methods, always trying to find a harmony between low pricing and decent sound and solid construction. I once did a total overhaul on a sat-upon Suzuki which was made in 1968. The poor thing had a heavy coat of some awful varnishy stuff on it, more like plastic. But the wood was really very nice, easily a match for the better production work of late-19th-century European production house stuff, and the workmanship under all that plastic was rather tight, very professional. So I stripped it, something rare for me, once I had all the many breaks fixed, and varnished over it anew. Turned out sounding really nice, made a young student happy when her father bought it for my repair cost. I've seen a lot of other finishes on Suzukis, and a wide array of woods. Not at all surprising if they experimented with three-ply necks...

[brake]

Looks nice!

[joninjapan]

that looks great, well cared for at least.

most of the Suzuki basses (of that age) I see here in Tokyo, go for well over $1000US.

of course the sound would be the important part.

[clink]

Originally Posted by txstatebass

Oh yeah, and: 3,006

I wouldn't have counted this one. It seems to me that this thread contains information outside of that contained in the newbie links.
That's my vote.
The OP also has some good pics. It's more than 'is a Suzuki bass any good'?

I agree with Drurb on the size. If the string length is over 41" it's a 3/4. If the neck repair looks solid it seems like a good deal.

[txstatebass]

Sorry to kick a dead horse fella's.

[Rvl]

The 2 most common UB in Japan are Suzuki and Chaki
Both are strongly built
Tops and back are a little heavy , which tends to muffle the sound (in my opinion)
It is not common to see these basses for sale outside of Japan
Most are laminate but they do build better ones,one way to tell is the model number ie E-10 (basic) D-80 (better) or something along those lines
Japanese usually choose model numbers and grade by the selling price ie E-10=$1000 and D-80=$8000
Usually carved with ebony boards are in the D-80+ grade

Kind of long winded,sorry

BUT if you do want a Kay like laminate for a good thumper then go for the Suzuki
If you want something that lets you roar or solo , save your money up for a $4000+ (maybe $2000 if you get lucky)

Also Suzuki can be an ok backup or to use for outdoor shows or times when you want to leave it overnight

Thanks

Robert VanLane

[e.maynard]

Great input (from around the world I might add).

Thanks so much!

I'll call in the morning and find out the scoop from the seller.

Take care.....

[Jake deVilliers]

I must be getting old - I don't see the string length in the original post..........

[Martin Sheridan]

The Suzuki instruments were the standard for school instruments until the better Chinese made instruments started coming along. I always found it interesting that they were indorsed by educators when the instruments themselves didn't even meet MENC specifications.

The Japanese might make some good cars and electroncis, but I wouldn't include the Suzukki instruments in any catagory with the word "good" attached. I'd pass on it. You'd be much better off with almost anything made in China so long as the set up and strings are good. There isn't anyting right about any of those Suzuki instruments that I've seen and I've seen a lot of them. They are best suited for warming your feet before the firelplace.