Locate the buzz

bickele · #1 09-23-2010, 08:13 PM

Hey!
I'm in the process of buying an amazing German upright, circa 1880 from The Contrabass Shoppe.
The bass (like every instrument at the Shoppe) looks stunning, it's setup perfectly, plays like butter and sounds clean and tight with an endless sustain even with TI orchestra strings.
Unfortunately there's a buzz or a rattle on the open E string.
I realize it could be a number of things, but here's what I found out so far:
Open E buzzes.
No other noise on fingered notes on the same string or anywhere else on the fingerboard.
Detuning the open E to E-flat or D buzzes, fingering an E with the string tuned to E-flat doesn't buzz.
Experiments so far made me think the buzz is not frequency related but "open string" related i.e. nut or bridge slots.
So I loosened the A, moved it out of the way and put the E string in the A string nut and bridge slots. Tuned it to E and it buzzes.

What can it be?

Holding the tailpiece with my knee doesn't cure it, pinching the tailpiece wire doesn't cure it, I'm puzzled...

I really want to buy this bass, but the buzz is a problem for me, especially when close miking in the studio or playing through a PA.
From a distance when playing acoustic it's not so noticeable.

I will of course talk to Tony at the Shoppe about the issue and ask for his advise, but it would be great to brainstorm with you guys a bit too.

Thanks

b.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #2 09-23-2010, 09:14 PM

What kind of strings are on the bass? My electric upright has a similar bad habit. With Spiro Weichs it was very bad. I strung it with Spiro Mittels and the problem is less. I believe the nut slots are too low, or a very small amount of wood needs to come off of the fingerboard in the lowest positions. Or perhaps I need to learn restraint.

bickele · #3 09-24-2010, 05:13 AM

I use TI Super Flexible, but I tried Spirocore and it still buzzes.

D.

uprightben · #4 09-24-2010, 05:14 AM

I would look to the nut, and I'm sure the Shoppe will make it right to your satisfaction, otherwise don't buy it.

kurt ratering · #5 09-24-2010, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uprightben

I would look to the nut, and I'm sure the Shoppe will make it right to your satisfaction, otherwise don't buy it.

+1

bickele · #6 09-24-2010, 06:29 AM

The nut was my first thought too, but I still get a buzz when I move the E string to the A string nut slot.

Meeting Tony at the Shoppe has been great! He's an incredibly patient guy and he really knows what he's doing.
Every single bass I played, and it was many, was great and the attention to details is incredible. They're all ready to be taken directly to a concert. The setup is great, new but broken in high quality strings on all, Tony even tunes them up for you before he hands them over

He told me he played the basses he thought I might be interested in for a while before I came so I would find them in tip top shape. And his sandwiches and coffee are great; if this isn't good service, what is!
So, I'm sure he'll go out of his way to make me happy, but a bit of brainstorming with other players/luthiers feels good

Thanks

b.

Eric Swanson · #7 09-24-2010, 06:59 AM

Did you check that no loose string ends are touching anything in the pegbox?

Eric Swanson · #8 09-24-2010, 07:00 AM

Did you check that no string ends are touching anything in the peg box (or nut box, as we called it when I was a kid:-) )? Where does the buzz originate?

I recently had what I thought was an open D buzz and suspected my nut height. Messed around with my strings ends; problem solved...

bickele · #9 09-24-2010, 07:58 AM

The strings ends are tucked under the coils. Nothing loose in there.

D.

bickele · #10 09-24-2010, 08:00 AM

The buzz is clearer around the bridge, but who knows if it's actually coming from there or if it's just amplified in that area...

D.

vejesse · #11 09-24-2010, 10:35 AM

If the nut slot height isn't too low (i.e. strings touching the board) then take a look at the fingerboard under the E string. Does the fingerboard slope continue all the way to the nut or is there a small flat sanded in at the end? However much that flat deviates in height from the slope is how much higher the nut has to be to avoid the rattle. Any flats or ridges on the fingerboard contribute to the problem as well. Also, some strings are less forgiving of fingerboard problems and will rattle more.

derfm3 · #12 09-25-2010, 05:55 PM

check the tuner ....

bassics1975 · #13 09-25-2010, 09:39 PM

Phantom noises and buzzez...just another reality for the bassist. You obviously found the resonant frequency for anything that may be loose on (or in) the instrument. Just exactly what this is is anybody's guess. Sometimes you can get lucky and pinpoint it. Other times it is easier to take it into the shop.

Is it just me or does this thing usually happen with the D-string?

chuck3 · #14 09-25-2010, 10:09 PM

You may want to take out the end pin and see how much "extra" endpin there is inside your bass when you play it at the height you like. The "extra" endpin inside the bass can resonate like a tuning fork at certain frequencies. I was taught this by the folks at Upton, hacksawed off a couple of inches of endpin and ended that particular buzz.

3ddi3 · #15 10-30-2010, 12:58 PM

A bit late but still someone could find it interesting.
I had the same problem only on playing a C# either on my E or A string.
Went to my luthier. My fingerboard needed to be glued on the downside of my neck.
He told me it's a common problem on DB. took 5 minutes to repair. He did it for free (yeeeaah, yes I'm a poor musiscian)

Dilbertisme · #16 10-31-2010, 10:57 PM

For what it's worth, I had a similar problem, but with the G. Raising the nut and planing the fingerboard did not help. Turned out that the string itself (La Bella plain gut) was worn enough in a few places to be out of true. Changing the string solved the problem.

Maxvla · #17 11-01-2010, 10:24 PM

If it happens on the open string regardless (within reason) of the pitch, but not on the same notes while fingered on other strings it is NOT a resonance buzz.

Coming from a good shop I would expect the fingerboard to be properly planed, but you could check that. Look for any slightly shiny spots on the fingerboard or better yet use a long (yardstick) ruler that has a true flat edge and isn't flimsy and align it the length of the fingerboard. There should be a gradual gap starting around the F in first position and increasing to a maximum of approximately 2-3 mm at it's height just past the middle of the board. You may need help to do the next part, but if you take a sheet of note paper and run it under the ruler while it is on the fingerboard and it catches anywhere that is not within 1 inch or so from the end of either side of the fingerboard, you might have found your buzz.

If the string is clearing the nut and the fingerboard is planed well, check the height of the bridge. A professional setup is normally about 6-7mm on the G, and 8-9mm on the E when measured at the end of the fingerboard to the bottom of the string. If it is below this height it can be ok, but if it is significantly below these heights this could also be your problem. If you bridge has wheels you can adjust them up 1-2mm (of string height) and try again.

Since your problem is not sonic, but rather mechanical this problem should be easy to find. The string is physically hitting something in it's path since it isn't a resonance buzz, or as mentioned in the post above, the string could simply be bad.

Jluvial · #18 11-01-2010, 10:50 PM

I was going to say the same thing as Maxvla, but he beat me to it. Either your fingerboard is too high (or has an imperfection) or your Bridge is cut too low on the E side. Changing the string to another slot wouldn't help because the string vibrates wider than the other strings. The A slot on your bridge is also cut shorter. It could also be something else entirely, but I'd check those two things first.