Looking for first bass.

[zongeek]

Okay, I read through all the newby stuff which was super informative.

I am looking to get into double bass and I have never really seriously played one. I mean, I've played them and I feel I have a natural knack for it, but obviously, I want to get a teacher and learn how to really play the heck out of thing.

I'm gonna go to Stein on Vine on Monday and check that out, but I'd like to go somewhat prepared with an idea of what I'm doing. So if y'all could help me out, I'd appriciate it.

Here is what I plan on using it for:

-Gonna bow and play fingers (pizz?).
-Really, really, really, really want to use harmonics!!
-I'll be playing in a rock setting, so jazz v. classical isn't really the thing.
-I would like to use it both amplified and not, depending on what I'm doing. When amp'd, there will be effects involved. So I suppose I'll want a decent to great pickup?
-I'm 5'10" and have pretty large hands, so I'm not sure what size would be appropriate.
-Looking in the price range of $1000-2000.
-If it's possible (and this may sound really absurd), I'd like to try using things like slide on the bass.

Uh... I thought I had more . Anyway, I guess, with all that said, I'm looking for size considerations, carved v. hybrid, strings (I was thinking D'addario medium size?), what kind of bow, et. al.

Thank ahead for any and all help!!

[catty]

If you're going to experiment with extended techniques in a "rock" setting, better go with something durable..

Ever check out Chris Dahlgren?

[MingusAmongUs]

I have a buddy that just moved out to Topanga. Doesn't play upright though. Plays wooden/PVC flutes and guitar. Look out for him -- he's trying to score a gig at Froggy's I think the place is called.

A lot of the techniques you're talking about are par for the course, with the exception of slide. Take a tip -- I've tried it and it's thoroughly disappointing. It sounds much better when you just slide your finger up and down the board. No need for any tools.

Check the various string and gear threads for opinions on weapons of choice, basses pickups amps and bows. It usually comes down to what works and what's available for you.

[Silversorcerer]

I used a DB in a rock band and that was how I got started on it. A good piezo like the K&K bassmax will resist feedback pretty well, but will sound kind of electric. In fact I was often told my first bass (laminated) sounded like a fretless Fender P when amplified. A carved top sounds better with a bow. In the price range you suggested, you might find a used hybrid or decent used German laminated bass. You don't need a slide really, but I can't see why you couldn't do that. I've never tried it. A chorus effect sounds pretty sweet for bowing and smooths out the rather scratchy / edgy sound that a piezo usually has played arco. A microphone gives a much better sound, but these feed back pretty easily.

3/4 is the most popular size, but you should get to Lemur and try some 7/8 and 4/4 ones if you can. Sound is more important than size and playability depends most on the set-up. Get a wooden bow with real horse hair. Some of the bows under $300 are OK for beginner use.

[jrlynch]

i may get flamed for this one, but i'd suggest finding a decent used electric upright instead. totally different animal than db, but i think a good way to make the transition, plus MUCH more controlable in a rock band context. you're going to be so frustrated just trying to control feedback, and if you're after a more electronic sound, eub is, well, eletric. go for a full scale eub, like a bsx, not some girly shortscale one.

then, when you tire of the volume and all that ... you buy a double bass.

btw, alex heile, who used to play with mina agossi, used a socket wrench as a slide to cover machine gun, so ... have at it.

jeff.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by jrlynch

i may get flamed for this one, but i'd suggest finding a decent used electric upright instead. totally different animal than db, but i think a good way to make the transition, plus MUCH more controlable in a rock band context. you're going to be so frustrated just trying to control feedback, and if you're after a more electronic sound, eub is, well, eletric. go for a full scale eub, like a bsx, not some girly shortscale one.

then, when you tire of the volume and all that ... you buy a double bass.

btw, alex heile, who used to play with mina agossi, used a socket wrench as a slide to cover machine gun, so ... have at it.

jeff.

What's the opposite of flame? Hmm. Well, I could just throw water at you-- but I don't want to rain on your parade. All this is to say, I agree!

[zongeek]

Thanks for all the grea info. gang.

I'm not really into the idea of EUB's. I've played a few and never really liked them.

So, in a 'rock' setting, then I'd have to be careful of feedback? I'll keep that in mind. And I guess I won't be using a slide if it defeats the point and is obviously doable without.

As far as pickups go, I'd really like to keep the integrity of that woody sound that double's have.

Catty: what do you mean by durable? Hybrid or just something well made?

Mingus: What is your friends name? Froggy's isn't that special. Neither is Abuelita's. But I will keep an eye out.

[MingusAmongUs]

friend's name is Bill Fiorella. Sometimes goes by William Rocco Fiorella. I know Froggy's is just another restaurant/bar but he took me there and the front part of the place looks like an old mission, with an actual stage (I guess it was once an altar or pulpit) -- it just looks like it would be a great venue for music, which if I recall, he said they don't really have. He was just going to try and talk someone into letting him play there. Keep in mind we're talking about quiet acoustic folky or jazz stuff, not loud club rock.

[jrlynch]

Originally Posted by zongeek

Thanks for all the grea info. gang.

I'm not really into the idea of EUB's. I've played a few and never really liked them.

So, in a 'rock' setting, then I'd have to be careful of feedback? I'll keep that in mind. And I guess I won't be using a slide if it defeats the point and is obviously doable without.

As far as pickups go, I'd really like to keep the integrity of that woody sound that double's have.

Catty: what do you mean by durable? Hybrid or just something well made?

Mingus: What is your friends name? Froggy's isn't that special. Neither is Abuelita's. But I will keep an eye out.

now when you say rock band loud, i'm assuming you refering to in-your-face guitar, marshall stacks and a drummer whose idea of restraint is playing with shoes on. in that context whatever "wood" is in the mix will be pretty much impossible to hear. i've a slab just for such purposes: a fretless eb-1 with an 18volt emg.

but, i'm a kinder gentler jeffie now, hense, double bass.

jeff.

[Eric Swanson]

Maybe fill the bass' body with some of that expanding foam insulation...should stop the feedback :-)

Only luck I ever had was with two amps; my little Polytone pointing at me and the drummer as a monitor and my 4/10 rig in front of me pointing the other way. Still a dubious proposition...one false turn and...but this is talk for another thread...

[Silversorcerer]

If you are up against mic'd drums and 100 Watt guitars, I would have to agree with JR. It's doable, but what a pain and better sounding acoustic double basses usually have a worse feed back problem. The more it resonates, the better it sounds acoustically, and the worse it feeds back when amped. The Realist pick-up, IMO, maintains the woody sound better than most without much feed back. I think the K&K bassmax can go even louder, but still, the practical limit is way below EBG volume. Not that it can't be done, so if that is what you want go for it and be ready to deal with it.

When I was using a DB in a rock context the band was pretty darn loud, but the bass was plywood and the guitarists were using Fender Princeton Reverb size amps, not too overdriven. We ran a signal from my pre-amp out to the board and since I wasn't too much in the monitors it worked pretty well. My amp was a Fender RAD, which is about 25 watts. Now I'm using much bigger gear, but my carved bass is so resonant that feedback is a challenge. Sometimes we have a really good sound tech and these fellows have the skill if the gear is present to get you up loud enough for an arena, but that is totally pro gear and pro technicians. Also, the room becomes a critical part of the feed back situation. Amps like the Acoustic Image have great on board controls that help, but it is help, not a cure in many cases.

As far as durability goes, there is a common belief that I consider to be a superstition that carved basses are not as durable as plywood. My personal experience does not support that belief. Others may say different. Of course my experience is with a 31.5 lb. carved bass that will break anything it falls on before it breaks. Many carved basses would not do that and neither would most plywoods. Usually it is weather that is cited as a danger to carved instruments and not to plywoods. There is some merit to that in general, but again, it is not supported by my personal experience. In fact, weather that caused de-lamination in a plywood bass I had on approval has no effect on my carved instrument. So it is not always the case that carved is less durable, nor is it always the case that weather causes more problems with a carved bass.

[DrBassie]

I'd go with a ply. If you're putting effects on it, etc. I don't think you'll need the greater natural tone of the wood, but still having a "wood" sound as opposed to an EUB. Especially since you're looking at $1-2k

[zongeek]

When I say rock, I don't mean super loud Marshall stack or anything like that.

I have a rather modest Ashdown half stack with some pedals, etc. Check my profile for the specs.

ANyway, I'm just trying to guage what woudl be best for my needs. The band that I would be using this in is like a cross of Faith No More, Pink Floyd, Lusk, Soundgarden, Mingus.... That sort of thing. I knows that seems mildly contradictory (loud amps), but it's like a psych alt/pop rock thing.

That and I want to do a quartet also with some wind instruments.

Again, thanks for all the great info.!!!