Luis and Clark: Anybody seen one of these?

[glenfong]

Anyone see and play one yet?

http://www.luisandclark.com/bass.php

thoughts, opinions?

Think it's worth $12,939 for an indestructible double bass?

[bassplayer57]

I think they should stick to wood! LOL!

[Matthew Tucker]

Hey, we could start a new thread "Do carbon fibre basses open up with age?"

[DocBop]

Okay here comes my rookie ignorance....

I keep thinking about Ovations and how per Ovation the sound is coming from the wood top and back of instrument is only for amplification. Couldn't a DB be built with a traditional carved wood top and some sort of composite like carbon fiber for the back and maybe the sides? Seems like you could make something rugged for travel and club gigs and still sound good.

[jallenbass]

Listening to the cello sound clips on the sight it sounds very focused and quick. I would be curious to hear it live and for an extended period of time.

[Cosmos]

I heard & played one of these this past summer at Tanglewood. Larry Wolfe did a concert on one - He played very well as always!

Below is the YouTube link.

They sound good live, but certainly they don't approach the clarity or finesse of a wooden bass. They're alright to play, but they project the way ordinary basses do and you can feel that when you play.

I wouldn't recommend buying one, but they will probably improve as technology improves.



Larry Wolfe's Recital: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z4S9v3ct1E

[bassist14]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Hey, we could start a new thread "Do carbon fibre basses open up with age?"

from the luis&clark FAQ:
Do your instruments “play-in”? That is, does their sound, responsiveness improve with time, or does it remain the same as when the instrument is new?
--They do play in and sound better with time. Largely this is because the strings need to break; everything is new when they leave.

[Tslicebass]

A tenor player was telling me a story about this bass player who used to live here in chicago who played a carbon fiber bass....dont know if it was one of these.
I guess he used to strap it on his back and ride his bike to gigs because it was so light and durable.
I would have to see it to believe it. But he was saying the same thing...and he did see it

[mpoppitt]

It's ugly though.

I like my basses to have a scroll, and corners, and that's a lot of dough...

[The BurgerMeister]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Okay here comes my rookie ignorance....

I keep thinking about Ovations and how per Ovation the sound is coming from the wood top and back of instrument is only for amplification. Couldn't a DB be built with a traditional carved wood top and some sort of composite like carbon fiber for the back and maybe the sides? Seems like you could make something rugged for travel and club gigs and still sound good.

the top is where most of that great sound comes from. there was a famous guitar luthier back in the day who proved this point by making a beautiful sounding guitar with a solid top and papier-mache back and sides.

so, i think that your idea could work! theoretically....

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by jetpackbassist

the top is where most of that great sound comes from. there was a famous guitar luthier back in the day who proved this point by making a beautiful sounding guitar with a solid top and papier-mache back and sides.

so, i think that your idea could work! theoretically....

Or at least it wouldnt have any wolftones. But seriously wouldn't it be different for a bass because, it has a bass bar, sound post and bridge?

[CPike]

When I first saw the ad for the CF bass, I was stoked - until I saw the pricing. 4,900 for the fiddle, 5,200 viola, 6,500 cello...12k for the bass?!? I just watched the YouTube clip linked above, the machines are Tyrolean 2-on-a-plate - ew! You'd think at least for that kinda dough they could spring for something more modern and innovative like the Sloane machines...

Another thought: If CF is supposed to have all these promising tonal qualities, why do they use wood for the bridge and soundpost? Don't get me wrong - I'm no anti-carbon snob. I have a Gage Metropolitan bow, which I really love. Just my off-the-cuff reaction...

Chris

[dvmweb]

There is (or was) a CF guitar brand named "Rain Song". (think I'll check it out on the web) I played a couple of those in a store. They had a big full sound. Really nice, light, tough. I have a Martin guitar, and have had or played the big "named" brands.

I think that like anything new, if CF basses sound good and could become popular the price would come down. I'd like to try one out.

Walt MI/USA

[MingusAmongUs]

David Gage sells a CF bass that's much more reasonably priced.

No clips or video available though, that I know of. Not heard anything about it other than what's on the page.

[MarkRubin]

I've seen a few CF basses come through the shop with wildly varying levels of success. The sound post placement seems to be the major key in getting them to speak, at least in the case of the 2 Cosi basses we've worked on, both of which sounded pretty darn unimpressive when they first walked in. (I have a few old hot rodders and boat builders in my shop and they didn't seem too happy with the fit and finish of these either.)

Louis and Clark and Quintus cellos have come through and most sounded just wonderful, and I played a Quintus bass years ago that I would be proud to own now.

But at $12G's? What possible market are these manufacturers hoping to access?

[mheintz]

Originally Posted by Cosmos

I heard & played one of these this past summer at Tanglewood. Larry Wolfe did a concert on one - He played very well as always!

They sound good live, but certainly they don't approach the clarity or finesse of a wooden bass. They're alright to play, but they project the way ordinary basses do and you can feel that when you play.

I wouldn't recommend buying one, but they will probably improve as technology improves.

I'd like to try one too and I'd love to hear more about your experience, Cosmos. Did it sound boxy like a cheaper plywood? Or was just not as resonant as a fully-carved bass? If you can recall, how did the finish feel on the neck and how did the fingerboard feel? It would be interesting to try a few models, change strings and experiment with the soundpost.

Originally Posted by MarkRubin

But at $12G's? What possible market are these manufacturers hoping to access?

Maybe a second bass for pops outside or a primary bass for jazz gigs or large ensemble gigs? I suppose that it depends on the sound. I'm beginning to hate subways, steam heat, cold weather, small practice spaces and cymbal stands... I'm all too ready to believe. Perhaps because Luis is so well known, he certainly has a lot of big names playing his cellos.

I wish him luck.

[Anonymous75966]

Vancouverites take note, there's a Luis and Clark at the Hastings L&M. I saw it through the window today and had to run in and play it.

First thing to say is that the folks at the store admit that they haven't done a lot of setup work on it yet - take note of Mark's observation above about soundpost placement. The bridge feet looked a little thick to me too. Not familiar with the strings: purple at the tailpiece and different colours in the pegbox - some kind of Pirastros? So take it as read that the bass I played wasn't really dialed in yet.

I really wanted to like it, but I found it quite disappointing. Jazz pizz was pretty unsatisfying - thin fundamental, not a lot of volume, not a lot of resonance. Pizz on the E string was a plywood-y thump. Arco was better, although I found the bass very uneven through the registers. The low register was quite loud, with a noticeable bump around C on the A string, but somehow losing resonance and overtones as it moves up into the solo range. Folks in the store said the thumb position sounded a lot like a cello ... although I'd say it sounded more like a cello in the next room. I wouldn't say this bass was very resonant but it's got a weird echoey quality which I wouldn't say is exactly good.

FWIW, playing an inch from the bridge and digging in like Gary Karr changes the sound very noticeably in every register - lots more presence and cojones. However, that's not what I would call a versatile, working person's arco sound. It does suggest to me, though, that this bass wants more tension and pressure to really speak.

So a good setup might make a huge difference in all these observations about sound and response. As for the materiality of the instrument itself - I like the cornerless shape a lot. I even like the wacky scroll. It felt easily as heavy as a wooden bass, which surprised me - surely one of the advantages of CF should be that you can make things really light? (It's why the material's used in so many other applications.) I could see that the top plate is very thin, at least around the edges of the f-holes - so where's all the mass in the instrument? And one thing I'm not crazy about is the one-piece molded neck/fingerboard - the fingerboard is actually molded, so it's hollow underneath, ie, the 'board' appears to be only the thickness of a sheet, folded over at the edges. L&C cellos are the same, but I wonder if the lack of mass in the fingerboard might be a problem for sound production ...

Apparently some of the VSO bassists had been in earlier today and made some similar observations. Homes should get down there and check it out.

[Samie]

awesome concept! I can see some future in it. But I really don't understand the price. If all basses come out of a mold, even if there is hand made proccess involved, you should be able to lower the price. right?

[bassplayer57]

From your description, the strings sound like Original Flexocores, which are very good arco strings.

[anonymous12251111]

I personally think these instruments sound terrible. 5 cellists at my University have them, and the instruments have basically no warmth.