Modern luthiers and 5 strings

[Pete G]

I'm pretty sure the mensure on the Elias is 42 inches exactly. If not, it's 1/16" short of that.

[mheintz]

So far, we an impressive list of luthiers who have made 5-strings:
http://www.gruenert.com
http://www.poellmann-contrabass.de/
http://www.jauray.com
http://www.rossdoublebass.com/
http://www.thomasmartin.co.uk/
http://www.stringbass.com/al_bass1.html
http://www.eliasnotes.com
http://www.krattenmacher.com
http://www.contrabass.de/
http://www.lamario.ca

Now what about luthiers who have done five string conversions. Of course, we have our very own Arnold (http://www.aesbass.com/) who converted Ken's Hungarian bass:


Who else?

If you had an otherwise quite playable, nice sounding modern 4-string and wanted a 5-string, would you consider converting to a 5-string? Or does a conversion really only make sense where the bass already needs to be extensively restored? For example, the Hungarian bass was probably going to be extensively restored, so the five string was just going the extra mile.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by mheintz

Now what about luthiers who have done five string conversions. Of course, we have our very own Arnold (http://www.aesbass.com/) who converted Ken's Hungarian bass:


Who else?

If you had an otherwise quite playable, nice sounding modern 4-string and wanted a 5-string, would you consider converting to a 5-string? Or does a conversion really only make sense where the bass already needs to be extensively restored? For example, the Hungarian bass was probably going to be extensively restored, so the five string was just going the extra mile.

That is just about what happened. Right after I bought the Bass I took it to Arnold in need of a full set-up and some other things to say the least and then we saw something inside that didn't look right.

So, off comes the Top and why not make it into a 5er since I wanted one and didn't need another 4 that bad. The extra mile wasn't that bad.

New wide 5er FB, TP/MPM, BR, Tuner, String and that's about it. The Top was strong as a tank with that high arch. Barely needed a Bassbar at all. I used it a few times on and off but in the end, I just stuck with the Chromatic Extension for the low notes.

[Silversorcerer]

Kremona-Bulgaria Ltd. is the maker of my five string. Gollihur imports these. It is the larger model (7/8 or 4/4) and I have seen their 3/4 model in the five string version also, which is similar.

I suppose there are better instruments from better makers;- and at much higher prices. This one is serving me very well as a beginning player and I think it is a good enough instrument for one to decide if a 5 string will work for their needs without breaking the bank. In that it was built by a small European shop operated by the same family for more than 75 years, they have some experience with the type. If / when I upgrade, this will be a good back-up instrument, and the sound has dramatically improved in the first 2.5 years as the instrument opens up.

[Attenergy]

Glad I found this post ... please don't shoot me ... but ... I recently purchased a 5 string NS Design Electric Upright ... I don't have a book that addresses the 5th string. Currently, I am studying out of Simandl and creating my own "B" string challenges. Are there any books out there that you guys could share with me that emphasizes the "B" string and gives you practical applications for it?!?!?!

[Pete G]

Bill Bentgen's web page has some great 5-string exercises he has worked up, based on Simandl:

http://www.billbentgen.com/music/5-string.htm

Download as Adobe Acrobat files.

[Attenergy]

THANKS A MILLION "PETE G" ... I will check it out tonight!

Thanks again!!!

[Attenergy]

WOW!!! I couldn't wait ... I checked it out and it is FANTASTIC!!! Have to go to Kinkos and get it printed! I will start on this tonight. There is a wealth of information on this site for the 5 string bassist. I can't wait to get started with it. THANKS AGAIN "PETE G"!!!!

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Pete G

the principal issues always seem to boil down to these two for me:

Getting the bass to sound open, projecting, and loud; and setting up the neck/fingerboard so that the bass is easy and intuitive to finger and bow.

Hey Pete

For the longest time I played nothing but 5 strings, so I can relate to your quest.

The 3 fivers I've had were all lousy in some way or another when I bought them (I could see the potential they had, but that's about it). By the time I sold them people could not believe how great they were. It was all in the setup.

Our luthier friends will have to forgive me for I don't mean harm, but I could not get anyone to do the work properly, both in North-America and in Europe. I probably didn't have much luck or maybe a 5 string setup is a very time consuming task and they were trying to spare me the four digit bill.

So I had no option but to do the work myself, I started experimenting. Of course it looked awful but my bridge had the right curve, and the right string spacing. My fingerboard had a curve that fitted the bridge, and many other different jobs and adjustments.

[Pete G]

It wasn't really a quest for me, Dr. Rod, it just happened.

But I agree with you that, with 5-strings, it's all about set up, and if you've never played a properly set up 5-string, you don't appreciate the basic fact that there should be NO DIFFERENCE between playing a five string and a four string.

If there is, you're playing a 5-string that has not been properly set up. Which means (at least in the U.S.) 99.9 % of them.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Pete G

here should be NO DIFFERENCE between playing a five string and a four string.

If there is, you're playing a 5-string that has not been properly set up. Which means (at least in the U.S.) 99.9 % of them.

Preach it brother !

Amen

[Big B.]

I own an 8 year old full size (7/8 neck)5 string by Rumano Solano in Baltimore. very beautiful and sounds absolutely huge. I have won several orchestral jobs with it and get constant compliments on tone. Good across all registers, and plays well enough for concertos with a little extra work. Surprisingly, it has a very powerful high register.
I find the c extension to be a more direct sound, while the fifth string (mine is B) has a much bigger sound. We have 3 C extension players in our section and there is a noticable difference in tone. The two make a great combination. Technical passages are much easier for me and I dont have their problem of remembering to close the extension. Cuts down on mechanical issues as well.

[lfh]

Originally Posted by Pete G

Second, Elias has a neck construction formula that is unique in my experience and also apparently central to the success of the design. His neck is not "rounded" as much as the necks on most basses. Rather, the neck is more of a "V" shape, and having less wood volume between the thumb and the fingers really seems to help the player finger the five strings properly.

+1

My Swedish-made Bjärton ply from 1949 also has a V-shaped neck and the bass is very comfortable indeed! The fingerboard has a symmetrical overhang, and the string spacing is 25 mm (11.8 mm at the nut). AFAIK the V-shape was used only on the 5-string models -- all 4-stringers I've tried have "normal" necks.

[LouisF]

I have a 5/8ths size 5 string (High C) made by Rumano Solano in 2001 - just to add to the list. It's a very big sound from a small bass. (I think I just up-loaded the pics!)

Louis

[Dr Rod]

I know this is a tough one, but do you think there is a way to photograph the V neck?

It probably won't show, right?

[lfh]

Hmm... Actually I do have an "adjustable template" (I don't know the English term) for copying shapes. Please allow me a couple of days, and I'll try to post a cross-section of the neck.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by lfh

Hmm... Actually I do have an "adjustable template" (I don't know the English term) for copying shapes. Please allow me a couple of days, and I'll try to post a cross-section of the neck.

you are very kind, I'm in no hurry

[Pete G]

Dr. Rod, I don't think a photo would show what I'm talking about on the Elias. It's a subtle effect that doesn't really jump out at you when you look at the back of the neck, but you notice instantly when you start to play.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Pete G

Dr. Rod, I don't think a photo would show what I'm talking about on the Elias. It's a subtle effect that doesn't really jump out at you when you look at the back of the neck, but you notice instantly when you start to play.

I feared that, thanks anyway

[lfh]

Here's at last an attempt to capture the cross-section of the neck. The template device is a crude tool, so please take this with a grain of salt. The scale is 5 mm per division and the shape is captured where i put the thumb in first position.