Is more more? - Page 4

godoze · #61 06-24-2004, 01:44 PM

I agree.

Michael Case · #62 06-24-2004, 01:55 PM

I like the idea of being able to hear the difference. My problem is being the owner of bass that's much less than the basses in discussion I'm affraid I'll never appreciate mine again.

godoze · #63 06-24-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike da mook

I like the idea of being able to hear the difference. My problem is being the owner of bass that's much less than the basses in discussion I'm affraid I'll never appreciate mine again.

You and me both, brother !

KSB - Ken Smith · #64 06-24-2004, 01:58 PM

You can't feel a 50K Bass on a 3in. speaker. You have to hear and play them in person.

KSB - Ken Smith · #65 06-24-2004, 02:02 PM

But then again, Just ask Don Z. about my Gilkes, Martini and Batchelder. He's played them all.....

hdiddy · #66 06-24-2004, 02:02 PM

Yeah we need a A/B Coke/Pepsi taste test here. I would also like to add that for some of us due to location/budget/time or what not, fine ancient basses cannot be found easily so it would be nice just to scratch the surface of what these things can sound like.

Me, I don't really care either way because the reason I play bass is that the music inspires me. Not what the hunk of whittled wood i'm plunking on nor the noises it makes, as long as I can tell it's reasonably pleasing. I don't need to drive a Ferrarri to get to work everyday. But some people love Ferrarri's. Diff'rent strokes...

Mike Crumpton · #67 06-24-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

You can't feel a 50K Bass on a 3in. speaker. You have to hear and play them in person.

That's a releif of sorts Ken - but given what you say I take it that amplification won't put accross the quality of the maga bass down at the local jazz club - unless you're Ben Wolfe (but TB seems to have come to the concensus that there is no advantage to masochism or anti-amp puritanism in another hotly debated thread).

I'm feeling better already - I'm sure it won't last but England are beating Portugal for the moment.

hdiddy · #68 06-24-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

You can't feel a 50K Bass on a 3in. speaker. You have to hear and play them in person.

Granted that a $50K bass sounds good, please could you not ADD to the 'mojo' factor? No offense but thats kind of a cop out. It's already bad enough that alot of 'mojo' has been attributed to instruments we don't need someone saying "you can't do that just cuz'..." It just doesn't help those of us who don't have access to these things and have curiousity to find out if we should sell our left leg for one.

If a $50K bass sounds better, we should be able to hear some sort of difference, albeit maybe small, between it and a $10K bass playing the same way with the same recording techniques.

Mudfuzz · #69 06-24-2004, 02:34 PM

Some of us have good speakers because we use them for sound editing. I run my 'puter through a BBE maxie and 6" audix [I can’t remember the model and it’s not on the monitors] monitors.

Those of us with good sound will just have to tell you what to think

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #70 06-24-2004, 03:36 PM

Goodness, what a batch of assumptions! 3" Speakers? $20 Speakers? If such a recording of such an instrument were to be made, I would listen to it on the same set of reference headphones I use to listen to all of the other Sampler submissions. Personally, if I couldn't hear the difference between two basses on a set of reference phones, I'd start to wonder what all the fuss was about. But that's just me. You guys can talk about the heavenly but unhearable-on-a-recording sounds of a Rigatoni vs. those of a Piaggi until the cows come home if you want. Don't let me bother you.

BTW, my sister is one of the world's most beautiful women, but pictures don't do her justice.

AMJBASS · #71 06-24-2004, 03:38 PM

The really great basses have to be "felt". I don't think you can convey power through speakers. You can hear the warmth and fullness, but not the projection.

hdiddy · #72 06-24-2004, 03:51 PM

But thing is... if the difference is between fullness and warmth, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO hear the difference from a $50K PANCETTA relative to a $10K RIGATONI! Yes we know we can't feel the vibrating strings nor the projection but we just want to hear the two samples, and judge for ourselves!

At that price point the difference should be hopefully drastic enough to tell a difference.

hdiddy · #73 06-24-2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

No reason to get cocky Chris, I seriously doubt that you would have purchased your La Scala from a sound file listening to your reference headphones if that's what it came down to.

But I bet you could tell a difference between his LaScala vs. his old crusty A.S.S. in a sound file! We're not talking about the 'absolute' sound quality of a bass. We're not seeking to compare the LaScala to a Kay sitting in our living room. It would make no sense to make such a comparison. We're talking about the 'relative' sound quality through the same medium.

hdiddy · #74 06-24-2004, 04:30 PM

If someone does actually go through with this, we should label the two samples generically and set up a poll here to see if listeners can tell if Bass A sounds better than Bass B, and then unveil them and the results at a later date. That's kinda fun methinks.

I can hear it now...

We secretly replaced Fred's Gilkes with a Martini, lets see if he can tell the difference...

Mudfuzz · #75 06-24-2004, 04:34 PM

I think a real cheap bass should be added as well, just to see who's paying attention

Mudfuzz · #76 06-24-2004, 05:05 PM

Also, if this is going to happen I [and probably all of us] would like ALL the technical info on the recordings: what mics are to be used, how many, where in the room they are to be placed, what the size and shape of the room is, what the materials the room is made of [floor, walls, celling, and if any acoustical foam and or tuning has been done to the room], what pre-amps [if any] will be used, if compression is used what make and model will be used, and what format, make and model will be used to lay down the tracks.

Without this info the whole thing is a little pointless to me.

arnoldschnitzer · #77 06-24-2004, 06:02 PM

Any recorded bass sound is to a bass as a picture of a mountain is to Everest. String instruments do a lot more than make a recordable tone. They fill rooms, they resonate, they move air, they shake things, and they ultimately induce an emotional reaction in the listener. To try and compare basses by price via recordings is a fool's errand.

Don Higdon · #78 06-24-2004, 07:36 PM

All I heard from Chris was a request to see pictures of two different mountains. It got morphed by others into something else so they could post their objections to what he didn't say in the first place.

KSB - Ken Smith · #79 06-24-2004, 08:57 PM

Thanks Arnold, I couldn't have said it better. Whew...... And I though I would have to do some 'free' recording for the 'talkies'...... Thanks for bailing me out......lol

I'm working on Beethovan's Sonatina (in 'G', minor -major-minor) so I can teach it to my youngest son for a sSecial Audition he has in January. He will be 14 then. I play on both the Gilkes and Martini at different times but I keep my Mute on both my Basses when I practice.

The reason?, If I don't mute it, my ears start to ring from the walls shaking in my 16x16(est.) set-up room where I keep my music stand.

The Gilkes Fills up the room but the Martini Shakes the floor as well......

Try putting that in a sound clip......

One thing you can't show in a sound clip and one of the most inportant things to a player is the response of the Bass. The Bow and the Strings act like 'one'. Like when you open your mouth to speak. It's not mechanical, it's natural...... It's mostly the upper end Basses only (with some exception) that can do that.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #80 06-24-2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DONOSAUR

All I heard from Chris was a request to see pictures of two different mountains. It got morphed by others into something else so they could post their objections to what he didn't say in the first place.

Thanks for listening.

Anybody remember the famous quote about how "talking about music is like dancing about architecture"? All I was saying is that recordings are a darn sight closer to understanding what an instrument sounds like than any florid hyperbole in text could ever be. Clearly, the best measure of any instrument would be to play and/or hear it live. No offense to anyone, but duh. But seeing as that's unlikely or impossible in this case, I thought I would suggest the next best thing, seeing as we already have the sampler page are are as a group getting accustomed to critical listening of recordings by other members in that forum. How anyone can say that it's a bad idea to actually listen to a recording of an instrument that is being discussed is beyond me. Is it not a sound producing instrument? Isn't that the reason it exists? Sure, it would be lovely to play it, but hearing is also believing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BISTRO

No reason to get cocky Chris, I seriously doubt that you would have purchased your La Scala from a sound file listening to your reference headphones if that's what it came down to.

Given the choice of listening and not listening, I'd rather listen.

As it happens, I bought that bass after a trial period, but I went to all the trouble to get my hands on it (it was from Wisconsin) based on reputation alone and after having played its half-sister, a laminate Cleveland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTHRA

Not that we're puschasing any $50k bass, but how about doing this test.

Go to Upton's website, they have audio of the basses there. Are you telling me that you can hear definite difference in the basses there that you can seperate between a $8k bass and a $12k bass?

I'm saying I don't give a **** how much a bass costs when I'm listening to it. What I'm saying is that each bass has its own sound, and that sound doesn't always know the price tag. If I were not on a phone connection, I'd be happy to go the the Upton site and listen to the files. I'm absolutely NOT telling you that I could tell you which bass is more expensive, nor would I care to. But I'll guarantee you that if the recordings were even halfway decent, I could tell you some of the differences on tone between different basses, and could make some judgements about how I felt about the sound of each instrument. Which is all I was looking to do here.

If (in lieu of better options) it's a fool's errand to listen to a recording of a musical instrument in an attempt to find out something about what it sounds like, then I guess I'm a fool.