Move to Smaller Bass or Pivot?

bdengler · #1 12-21-2009, 08:19 AM

First, Happy Holidays to all! I also would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful and helpful posts over the years.

I've been battling with arthritis for the past 9 years (I'm in my late 50's) and the 'ole joints are getting bad in both hands. It's spreading along the finger joints and wrist joints. I've switched from French to German bow, which helps, but now I need to take care of the left hand. I can't get the fingers to reach anymore for the whole step between the F and G on the low E (or the Bb and C on the A string, etc.). So, my solution is either to (a) move to a small bass or (b) try some other fingering method, like pivoting or simply shifting. The problem with the shifting approach is that my intonation starts to go down the tubes because I'm constantly moving my hands (and losing track of where they are) on the fingerboard. A member of the Columbus Symphony asked me "do you want to play for 6 more months or 5 more years?" I answered "5 more years." He then replied: "Then move to a small bass. At the end of the day, you're playing for the love of it, not to audition."

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Brian

drurb · #2 12-21-2009, 08:33 AM

Sorry to hear of your difficulty. You might get a better response by moving this to a "technique" forum here.

jallenbass · #3 12-21-2009, 08:33 AM

I agree about playing a smaller bass. Life's too short to be constantly struggling with an unworkable situation. There are nice smaller basses out there. You might have to look a little harder. There's always the Shens, Strunals and similar that come in fractional sizes. My jazz bass is a small 3/4 or large 5/8 old German and it's a lot of fun to play because it is smaller IMO.

Jason Sypher · #4 12-21-2009, 09:59 AM

I think a smaller bass sounds like a good idea. There are smaller instruments that sound lovely and are easier to play. What other therapies are you working with to manage your arthritis? Does your doctor know about your bass playing? In brief, are you working on this in a holistic manner (posture, diet, physical therapy, supplements, yoga, mind-body work, etc etc etc)? I don't want to come across as a preachy flake but sometimes we get micro and just start staring at the source of the pain instead of the bigger picture. Do you have a teacher? It might be time to consider a different method of playing the instrument? I'd like to hear that you are playing for another 20 years! There is a beautiful 5/8 bass for sale on these forums that is located in Brooklyn that I played and it sounds and plays like a dream. Good luck.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #5 12-21-2009, 10:30 AM

I went from a big *** bass to a small 3/4 and couldn't be happier. For me it was less about the 43" vs 42" than the overall size and weight difference. I developed a hernia, lower back and knee pain from carrying the thing to gigs, up and down stairs. Since I switched my body feels much better and I can concentrate on my playing. I also have a 41" bass that sounds very nice, so I no longer believe a bass has to be big and hard to play to sound good.
Good luck.
Also, don't discount the impact of diet on joint health.
Good luck.

paulunger · #6 12-21-2009, 01:40 PM

You need a shorter string length. I would recommend a 39 or 40 inch string length. You can achieve this by either buying a smaller instrument (which can be hard to find) or by modifing an existing one.

Be sure if you modify an existing bass that you do not move the bridge. The bridge needs to be centered on the F holes.

There are three methods you can use to reduce a basses string length.
a) Buy a new neck and/or having it set deeper into the heel.
b) Have an inch or two cut out of the center of the neck.
c) Have a false nut installed and the back of the heel reshaped.

For option b and c make sure you have plenty of existing wood on the back of the heel. A lot of this wood is going to be cut away to give the neck a "D" stop. Also try to only modify a bass that naturally has a 42 or less string length. Cutting off more than two inches is problematic.

Good luck.

Eric Hochberg · #7 12-21-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulunger

Be sure if you modify an existing bass that you do not move the bridge. The bridge needs to be centered on the F holes.

Not necessarily. You might be able to move north 1/2" or maybe a bit more. Ask your luthier. I've done it on one of my basses with no problem. If you move the bridge up and add a false nut of equal length, your note at the heel will stay the same.

In general, do what works for you physically so that you can keep playing. There are really nice smaller basses out there!

Fletcher Lanning · #8 12-21-2009, 04:18 PM

Instead of modifying a bass that was built at a certain scale length and sacrificing it's intended tone, why note sell the instrument that is now to big and buy a 5/8. I've seen some excellent instruments in that size range so you don't have to sacrifice quality.

AMJBASS · #9 12-21-2009, 04:29 PM

Agreed, there are some really great sounding smaller basses out there. Keep your eyes open and something should show up on the market.

LouisF · #10 12-21-2009, 07:26 PM

+1 on the move to a smaller bass - it's what I did and I've been playing without pain for the last 2 years (hopefully, with all due respect to your teacher, I have more than 3yrs left) ... and I;m 60!

Louis

paulunger · #11 12-21-2009, 09:07 PM

Of course, there are nice small basses out there, but there are fewer of them. And you may not like the ones you find.

Yes, you can move the bridge up slightly. I have done this to a number of basses and you do sacrifice a little tone and response. Anything more than 1/2 inch will not work, it just depends on the bass. That being said... after doing this to a number of basses I have found that it just does not produce a satisfying result. It is the changing of the placement of the bridge and not the shortening of the string length that weakens the tone of the bass, IMHO.

Depending on the bass and how it is set up you may need to put higher tension strings on when you shorten the string length.

Dave Irwin · #12 12-22-2009, 06:43 AM

Hey Brian. Sorry to hear you are still having problems but I'ts great to hear you're still playing.

I think I'd look around for a nice smaller instrument before altering your current instrument. Bass shopping is always fun

I haven't talked to him for some years now but you might want to contact Jacque Gray
in Lancaster. As I recall he was into setting up basses with really low action and may have some shorter scale instruments as well. His email is bassviol@juno.com

Either way I hope you find some relief and keep on playing.

Dave

bdengler · #13 12-23-2009, 12:59 PM

Thanks to all for the good advise. For those of you who have seen the good 5/8's, I would appreciate if you would share with me (and you can send me a private message if you desire) where I can find these 5/8's basses. Right now, my Bryant has a string length of 40.75 inches. 39 inches is definitely comfortable. I had trouble selling my Bryant in the past, and it is a smaller bass (short but fat). I like the idea of reworking the neck. Regarding the false nut, I'm wondering if it throws off the intonation too much at the neck heel?

Regards, Brian

Eric Hochberg · #14 12-23-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdengler

Thanks to all for the good advise. For those of you who have seen the good 5/8's, I would appreciate if you would share with me (and you can send me a private message if you desire) where I can find these 5/8's basses. Right now, my Bryant has a string length of 40.75 inches. 39 inches is definitely comfortable. I had trouble selling my Bryant in the past, and it is a smaller bass (short but fat). I like the idea of reworking the neck. Regarding the false nut, I'm wondering if it throws off the intonation too much at the neck heel?

Regards, Brian

CBC has a 5/8 advertised on their site and SMR Doublebasses (Steve Reinfrank)in Evanston, IL has a pretty nice smaller old instrument.

A false nut will change the intonation at the heel. It's your call whether it's too much. The heel might possibly be taken down. As I said before, if you raise your bridge an equal amount, the heel note doesn't change. It might be worth a try with your Bryant. A half inch both ways will get it down to 39.75" These are reversible changes.

LouisF · #15 12-23-2009, 07:12 PM

The 5/8th Cole bass at the Bass Cellar - if it's anything like a Cole I played in London last summer - would be an amazing bass. It's also $23,000 or so. At about 1/10 of that Lemur has this:

http://shop5.mailordercentral.com/le...uctinfo/BA129/

And David Gage has a 1/2 size Christopher at $2800.00

Volker Narhmann had several ex-Boston Pops and Boston Ballet 5/8ths basses when I was looking (I bought my smaller 3/4 bass there). Even though most of them have sold, he's still got them on the site and they might give you an idea of what's out there.

I had a 5/8 Solano bass for a while, as I was making the transition, and it was great for playing on the days when the back etc wasn't so hot, but eventually out grew it with the small 3/4 and a change to sitting.

I guess what I'm thinking is perhaps spending $2.5 to see if you really want to live with a small bass over the long haul as your ONLY bass. I'd be hesitant about mucking with the Bryant (just my opinion). I think those adjustments would make it even harder to sell later (even if they are reversible, which I don't doubt). On the other hand, Andy might take it in trade against the Cole.

Then of course, there's this, the "Venus" bass by Mario LaMarre, which was an ISB "favorite" in 2007.

A lot of options.

Louis

Eric Hochberg · #16 12-24-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

The 5/8th Cole bass at the Bass Cellar - if it's anything like a Cole I played in London last summer - would be an amazing bass. It's also $23,000 or so.

I was referring to a German 5/8 under 10k. I played the Cole, interesting little bass.

Don Higdon · #17 12-24-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdengler

He then replied: "...At the end of the day, you're playing for the love of it, not to audition."

Any thoughts?

Yes. I love that comment.

bdengler · #18 12-25-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochberg

I was referring to a German 5/8 under 10k. I played the Cole, interesting little bass.

I played the Cole too. It's a great little bass with a great big sound and price tag to match. I think the half-size basses are too much a compromise in sound. I played at two masses last night and I had to shift or pivot to move between the low F and G, low Bb and C, etc. My hand simply won't yield. Thanks for the advice and I appreciate the leads.

Happy Holidays,

Brian

MR PC · #19 12-25-2009, 02:25 PM

Sorry to hear you are having this trouble. Have you discussed your medical diagnosis with your friend in the Columbus Symphony? The comment I read seems very wise. I understand that this situation can compound with the anxiety of perceivinging loss of motor movement.

He or she might have some good advice in dealing with the problem outside of instrument choice.

bdengler · #20 12-27-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PC

Sorry to hear you are having this trouble. Have you discussed your medical diagnosis with your friend in the Columbus Symphony? The comment I read seems very wise. I understand that this situation can compound with the anxiety of perceivinging loss of motor movement.

He or she might have some good advice in dealing with the problem outside of instrument choice.

Yes, we decided to see if I could rock between the low F and G, using the thumb as a pivot. She thought it would be a shame to give up the Bryant because of its sound and it's a small bass already. I gave it a try at mass this morning and it seemed to work fine. Once I get out of that half position I'm fine. She also suggested I try standing to play, and sway slightly with the bowing.

Regards, Brian