my bass is louder than yours

[jweiss]

"But it aint just the bass, sparky."

Discuss your ampless playing here.

[Marcus Johnson]

It sounds good. It's fun. I like it.

[Gary Lynch]

Ed Fuqua
Registered User Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC

"There are any number of threads where I (among many others) talk about the physical approach to playing and getting a loud projecting yet warm sound, but ultimately I think that is yet another thing that can only really be communicated by a living breathing human in the same room with you. Because it's not about following a diagram or list, it's about playing with a relaxed approach and using physics. The reason my teacher has been able to help ME get there is because he watches ME play and talks, in real time, about what I'm doing right and wrong, in real time. He can push my shoulder down, he can grab the bass a demonstrate, he can say "THERE, did you feel that?" when he hears and sees what I was going for.... "

That makes sense but what about the bass? Can you play all basses without an amp on a gig?

[marvin spangles]

I am the foolish one who gave rise to this topic. I do all my practice unamped. I played a small restaurant gig for about a year where I mostly played unamped. I was playing a noisy gig where my pickup died in the middle of the gig. I raised the strings a little and dug in and survived. It was hard work however. I do realise that unamped playing has as much if not more to do with the player's technique as it is the bass . But surely with some basses there are limitations.

[Eric Hochberg]

Don't forget that you are not hearing the bass as you would if you were in front of the instrument. It may be louder in the mix than you think. I also think it's fine to develop your technical style based upon the ability to increase volume with an amp when playing with a band, not just to get the most possible volume acoustically from the instrument. And face it, some basses have a bigger, more projecting sound than others, playing styles being equal.

[drurb]

Might as well weigh in here with my $0.02. These are my opinions and what works for me.

I've always considered an amp to be a necessary evil. In a large room, with horns, and under other circumstances, things just work out better with some reinforcement. I never practice with an amp. I always strive for the best acoustic tone I can pull off. My string heights are on the high side and my style of play is of the "Ray Brown School." Not that I'll ever be that good-- it's the "school" I'm after. I also have a carved bass that has a HUGE projecting sound. So, whenever I can play unplugged it's what I prefer. I want to inject energy into that instrument and hear it sing. An amp is like having an automatic transmission. I want to clutch and shift, thank you!

I have noticed that many young players seem to have almost no "sound." Musically and technically they may be more accomplished than I but they seem to just tickle the bass. There's no way they could play "unplugged" with other instruments. Maybe it's just a difference in style, maybe they're more "modern" than I am but I can't help but think they're missing out.

IMHO, YMMV

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I have a loud bass, tense strings, and medium-high string height. At the camps, people often comment how loud the bass is when I play with other faculty in no-amp settings. I'm all about the gigs where I can back into a corner and use the acoustics of the bass and room to provide all the sound I need.

Playing unamped is great when the situation allows it. Playing unamped where the situation isn't conducive to that paradigm leaves me feeling like I have two alternatives:

1) Try to force more sound out of the bass, which usually leaves me frustrated and sore at the end of the night;

2) Just play as usual and let the bass disappear under the mix and the room.

I find both of these things unsatisfying. My last (I hope) attempt at forcing more sound out of the bass came while subbing at a local restaurant with a drummerless trio and the band crammed into a corner. I brought a small amp, but was feeling my oats in the first set when the place was only moderately full and my bass was cutting fine. In the later sets, the joint filled up and the people were loud, and I stubbornly refused to use the amp. I ended up hurting myself pretty good, and for what? Now I bring an amp, try not to use it if it doesn't seem to be needed, and use it when it does.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Don't forget that you are not hearing the bass as you would if you were in front of the instrument. ....
And face it, some basses have a bigger, more projecting sound than others, playing styles being equal.

As Chris mentioned - I think Jazz Camp/Summerschool is a good place to get an idea of this...?

So - on many occasions I have been in the situation where there have been up to a dozen bassists with instruments in the same room with no amps!

I think it's telling how the tutors (Jazz pros) are always louder than the students - no matter which bass they choose to pick up and play - say, using my bass rather than their own.

Also - it has struck me, how much air some of the tutors can shift, especially if you are standing straight in front of them - whereas moving around the room you might actually hear less of that...

I found that with the students, the bass came more into the equation, as to how loud the person sounded.

As a PS - I think Ed's comments are very true in that it is only when you are in the same room with others that these things become evident and it is possible for a tutor to have an effect - just reading a book or a forum like this can't determine what it is that makes you quieter or louder etc...?

[Paul Warburton]

I'm really having issues playing WITH the amp now. When I'm back there in the team, it's usually cool. Come time for a solo, which I love to do, the rest of the team and the audience pull back the sound in the room and there I am, exposed to that raw, uncontrollable and distorted sound that I don't even recognize as being me, coming through the amp.........later with that.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I'm really having issues playing WITH the amp now. When I'm back there in the team, it's usually cool. Come time for a solo, which I love to do, the rest of the team and the audience pull back the sound in the room and there I am, exposed to that raw, uncontrollable and distorted sound that I don't even recognize as being me, coming through the amp.........later with that.

Paul, maybe it's time for a better amp?

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I'm really having issues playing WITH the amp now. When I'm back there in the team, it's usually cool. Come time for a solo, which I love to do, the rest of the team and the audience pull back the sound in the room and there I am, exposed to that raw, uncontrollable and distorted sound that I don't even recognize as being me, coming through the amp.........later with that.

I'm happy to send you a few of our drummers, who won't pull back during your solos, thus making you glad you have the amp, but with you had something to throw at them...if you think it would help.

I can only afford a one way ticket for them, though, so no sending them back when you're done...unless you can "fix" them.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I'm happy to send you a few of our drummers, who won't pull back during your solos, thus making you glad you have the amp, but with you had something to throw at them...if you think it would help.
I can only afford a one way ticket for them, though, so no sending them back when you're done...unless you can "fix" them.

I can't "fix" them, Troy................but, my Boyz can. I'll be glad to pay for sending back their parts.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Paul, maybe it's time for a better amp?

That would ruin everything, Eric.
Out here it's PW country.
Either do it MY way or suffer the consequences......

[Eric Hochberg]

PW=The Man

But I think it's time to retire the Polytone...

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

PW=The Man

But I think it's time to retire the Polytone...

THAT did it, Eric.
Them Leetle fonts ain't gonna help yer sad ass. The Boyz are on the way. You know the drill....almost sent 'em after you before....'member? They DO. I cancelled that contract, but it cost 'em some $$ and time. They ARE pissed. (I tried to calm 'em down by tellin' 'em you called me "The Man".....no go.)

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

THAT did it, Eric.
Them Leetle fonts ain't gonna help yer sad ass. The Boyz are on the way. You know the drill....almost sent 'em after you before....'member? They DO. I cancelled that contract, but it cost 'em some $$ and time. They ARE pissed. (I tried to calm 'em down by tellin' 'em you called me "The Man".....no go.)

You're right, my ass is pretty sad...I'll see if I can whip up some milk and cookies to cool out the Boyz , or would they prefer something else?

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

But I think it's time to retire the Polytone...

That reminds me of a funny story - back when I was a Ute, I got a call to work with a group (mostly all folks who I had worked with before in other circumstances) that was opening for Sarah Vaughn. It shoulda just been a trio or quartet but, this being East Bumf**k, EVERYBODY wanted in on the gig. So it's rhythm PLUS guitar, two tenors, trumpet, bone and chick singer (I KNOW!) Anyway, I'm playing through a hi-fi rig: JBL power amp, pre-amp, parametric EQ and a Bose 802. Andy Simpkins is playing through a Minibrute AND a Polytone pickup. Guess whose bass SOUNDED like a bass?

[Eric Hochberg]

I know, those amps have their supporters...I owned one and went through 3 breakdowns on gigs before I finally ripped out the amp and preamp and just used it as a speaker cabinet. It didn't sound bad to me, just kind of boxy, if you know what I mean.