My bass: what is it? what is it worth?

Jeff Moote · #1 11-29-2006, 05:34 PM

Thanks to everyone here for being such a great resource for all things bass. I'd like to call on your knowledge to see if I can learn more about my bass.

I've attached pictures to this post and those that follow to help.

The bass is carved, and I believe it to be a workshop bass, possibly from Germany. The label on the inside reads:

Quote:

Anton Wittman
Geigenmacher Wien im Jahre 1955

The "55" is written in on a line by hand, the rest is printed to the label.

It appears to have undergone various minor repairs (I can see that the back has been reglued) which is in line with what I was told when I purchased it.

What do you think a bass like this is worth? I don't need an accurate value for insurance or selling it, I'd just like to know if what I paid was reasonable and if it's worth working on in the future (such as adding an extension).

I'd be happy to answer any specific questions that may help identify the bass. Sorry for the poor quality of the pictures.

Jeff Moote · #2 11-29-2006, 05:37 PM

Jeff Moote · #3 11-29-2006, 05:38 PM

Jeff Moote · #4 11-29-2006, 05:39 PM

last one

TSP · #5 11-29-2006, 06:28 PM

Well, "Wien" is Vienna, so Austrian, not German. "Geigenmacher" appears to mean "Violin maker", and "im Jahre 1955", in case you hadn't guessed, "in the year 1955".

As for valuation, I've no idea - rusty school German is the limit of my relevant knowledge :-)

Jeff Moote · #6 11-29-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

German or Austrian it's the same style Bass. If the sound is good along with the condition a modern Viennese Bass like your might be worth more because they are rare this side of the pond.

It would be best to shop and price similar Basses in design, age, condition and sound that are German, Czech or Austrian in origin and price it that way. Reality says it's worth what people will pay but insurance says it's worth what it costs to replace. Sometimes those prices are different. Go to the best shop for Basses in your area you can find. The insurance company will want a written appraisal in case of incident. If over insured, you will pay too much. If under insured for replacement, you will not have enough to replace it in the event of theft. Most often claims are for damage as theft of DBs is not very common.

A Bass for sale in a shop is often higher then person to person sales. A shop will give you a better idea on what a replacement will cost.

My guess is no less than $3,000. and up to $6-8k U$D at most as it is a fairly simple but neat and nice looking Bass. I like the shoulders. It must be a joy to play. One day, I hope to own an old Viennese Bass as I passed up a beautiful and huge Johann Thir 7/8ths about 5 years ago. It was a real gem.

Thanks Ken - your insight is valued as always. I had no idea just what I have on my hands. If you're right about that, then I just about stole this one. The shop I bought it from had been renting it out for a few years and therefore it shows the wear (especially the finish).

Like you said, it is a dream to play with those shoulders. At 42" string length, it's still much more comfy than my teacher's big orchestra bass.

I'll get it looked at as soon as I can by a good shop to get an appraisal.

Jeff Moote · #7 11-29-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

For what it's worth, my opinion was based on the label being a match to the Bass and authentic to the information it bears. Still, a fully carved Bass in healthy condition is rarely under $3k.

Yes, and on that alone I'm still doing well. If the label is authentic, then I probably underpaid for this bass. I think the price I paid was the result of the abuse this bass has taken through rentals (though structurally it's alright) and the relationship I built with the shop. They even planed the fingerboard for a better scoop a week after I purchased, as I noticed it was not as playable as it could be.

Quote:

The Bass looks to have a thick and shaded varnish rather than an even transparent type finish. Also, Basses from Vienna historically almost all have flat backs but that is mainly the older 18th-19th century makers. If this is what it is then we can see how they have moved to the round back like most all the 20th century German Basses.

I believe this is done to make the Bass look older with this sort of light antiquing in the shading but really, it fools only the audience at best..

If I had any complaints about this bass it would be the varnish. It's very heavy too. Mine looks more like a defined "pattern" following the curves of the bass than the "antiquing" that your bass has, but I'd agree that in both cases only the audience is fooled.

Would getting the bass refinished diminish the value at all, so long as it was done well by a professional? I don't see myself doing it soon, but if I'm going to keep this bass in the long term (after University) and put an extension on it, I might consider it if it won't hurt the value.

Jeff Moote · #8 11-30-2006, 05:17 AM

That sounds like good advice. Of course I wouldn't do anything without taking it to makers/restorers for a few opinions.

I don't think it will matter to me much if it brings the value up as much as if it sounds better. I'm no expert, but I'd guess the heavy coat of varnish on there right now could be hurting the sound.

drurb · #9 11-30-2006, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

...If you're right about that, then I just about stole this one.

Share and share alike. What did you pay?

Jeff Moote · #10 11-30-2006, 07:59 AM

Fair enough - $2400 CAD plus sales tax (15%). At todays exchange that's close to $2400 US.

Did I do as well as it would seem?

Chasarms · #11 11-30-2006, 09:19 AM

Sweet deal. Nice bass. I too really like the shoulders. I also, for some reason, just love the look of external linings. They really dress up the Gamba-style especially.

Although, come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen them on any other style of bass.

GriffithLea · #12 11-30-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasarms

Sweet deal. Nice bass. I too really like the shoulders. I also, for some reason, just love the look of external linings. They really dress up the Gamba-style especially.

Although, come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen them on any other style of bass.

Chas, what are you calling external linings? Is it those narrow strips of wood on the ribs/sides where they join the top/back? I like those, too. They make a bass seem more substantial, somehow. I wonder what the pros and cons of having them outside are?

My standpartner in one of the orchestras I play in has a bass that has those. As I recall, her bass is not a Gamba shape (hey, I always see it from the side) but I will look again next rehearsal. She refers to it as being from Mittenwald, that I know. I think it is 35-50 years old.

Chasarms · #13 11-30-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffithLea

Chas, what are you calling external linings? Is it those narrow strips of wood on the ribs/sides where they join the top/back? I like those, too. They make a bass seem more substantial, somehow. I wonder what the pros and cons of having them outside are?

My standpartner in one of the orchestras I play in has a bass that has those. As I recall, her bass is not a Gamba shape (hey, I always see it from the side) but I will look again next rehearsal. She refers to it as being from Mittenwald, that I know. I think it is 35-50 years old.

Yes. That's it. The ribs are lined to increase the gluing surface for the top and back. All basses have them, it's just that many have them on the inside of the ribs.

I don't know that there are specific advantages to one way or the other. I just think they look nice.

Chasarms · #14 11-30-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasarms

. . . Although, come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen them on any other style of bass.

It just took a little googling. Anyone surprised by who has one?

This is a beautiful bass.

http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...ini_bass_2.htm

drurb · #15 11-30-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

No, not all Basses have outer linings but most 19th-20th century modern Germanic basses do, some English and a few Italian Basses do. Some older ones do as well as some Yankee Basses.

Internal linings are on most basses made and only a small number were made without linings.

Chasarms point was that all basses have linings. Some have them on the outside.

arnoldschnitzer · #16 11-30-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffithLea

Chas, what are you calling external linings? Is it those narrow strips of wood on the ribs/sides where they join the top/back? I like those, too. They make a bass seem more substantial, somehow. I wonder what the pros and cons of having them outside are?

The plus is that the outside linings make the glue joints stronger and less likely to pop seams. The minus is that the outside linings make the glue joints stronger and less likely to pop seams.

drurb · #17 11-30-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Ok, sry, missed that BUT not All Basses have linings. My Prescott and Batchelder were both made without any linings at all in or out.

So... MOST Basses have linings on the inside and some have them outside as well. That's how I would put it if writing a book which by the way TB is in an on-line sense.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Jeff Moote · #18 12-01-2006, 07:26 AM

Very interesting folks. Thanks for all the information.